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Thread: Rifle Neck/Shoulder Sizing Problems During Reloading

  1. #11
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    Lee pistol factory crimp dies do indeed have a resizing ring to ensure chambering in case the bullet seats all caterwhompus, the rifle dies do not. The rifle factory crimp dies all use a collet style crimp and case length is much less critical than with a roll crimp.

    I would first ask about your priming setup. The press-mounted primer arm or a separate unit? Setting primers properly is the second most exacting operation in handloading, after dropping powder. It's easy to crush a primer by seating it overly hard and with the impressive leverage of that press (I have been running a RC for close to forty years) you have almost no "feel" for when the primer just bottoms out in the pocket. And there is no way to set a limit to the depth as you can with a ram prime or bench unit.

    Then I would ask about the process you used to set up the sizing die. There are tolerances in both die and shell holder. Sometimes when the numbers are against you and you proceed to set the die as per instructions it produces a round too short for the chamber. With a little patience and some unsized brass you can set the FL sizer up to the rifle. You might also consider a Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die to increase your brass life. The less you work the brass the longer it lasts.

    Sometimes rifles are short or long chambered also, that's what headspace gages are for. Both a die set too short and a chamber a bit too long would case that issue, though the long chamber would also have caused problems with the factory ammo and it did not, so I am less inclined to suspect any problem with the rifle. So far I am leaning towards an ammunition related cause, either a primer too high or too low or a sizing die out of adjustment.
    Last edited by versifier; 01-21-2016 at 11:10 PM.
    "Stand your ground.
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  2. #12

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    @fryboy -
    Absolutely will use caution when de-priming the DNF rounds.
    As you mentioned, the primes are even across the face, and I am confident they are set properly. Just flush or slightly below flush.

  3. #13

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    @versifier -
    I hand prime all my brass. I never did set up the priming arm on my RC.
    As for the process used to set up the die, that is where I am really a novice. I usually take a factory load and set my die to just "touch" the round. Then perhaps a 1/8 to 1/4 turn.
    I do have the correct shell holder.
    As you mentioned, the real trick is to learn the right "feel" to get things adjusted correctly.

  4. #14
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    You can still overdo it with a hand tool if you put too much ooomph into it, but you have much more feel with a hand tool.

    "Correct" shell holder is a matter of luck on occasion. But let's leave that for now. I think the setup is a likely culprit. (Maybe not, but it's easy enough to check if it is or not and scratch it off the list of possibilities.)

    I will explain how I set up FL sizers for bolt action rifles. There are other methods that work well too, but this has served me well. Be aware that if you are loading for more than one rifle of the same chambering you will have to find a setting as explained below that works in all of them if you are going to use the same dies set for all of them.
    1. You need the rifle, unloaded, handy.
    2. You need a batch of fired-in-the-rifle but unsized cases.
    3. Unlock the lock ring on the sizing die and back it up the die a few turns. Lube the die's expander ball. Install the die and shell holder in the press.
    4. Lube the cases. (If you don't know why Mr. Green is smiling here, order a stuck case remover kit. Sooner or later it will come in handy.)
    5. Raise the press ram all the way. Screw the die down until it touches the shell holder then back it off two full turns.
    6. Size a lubed case. Wipe off the remaining lube. Load it into the rifle's magazine and feed it into the chamber. It should not fully chamber. Put the case aside. Screw the die down a quarter turn, take another lubed case and size, clean, and attempt to chamber it as before. If it does not chamber (and it probably won't) continue the process until the the case chambers cleanly and the force needed to close the bolt fully is the same as needed for a new factory round. Set the die's lock ring for this new setting and size the rest of the lubed cases. Then go back and relube the "rejects" and set their shoulders back to where the others in the batch are.
    7. Measure the cases after you have cleaned them post-sizing. Trim them all uniform or to min if any are over max in length. Chamfer/deburr the necks.
    8. Prime and load as usual.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  5. #15
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    I can't use CCI primers in my Ruger SP101 357Mag. I did a trigger job to lighten the trigger pull to 9lbs and if I use CCI' or Remington primers I'll get a Click-No-Bank. I use both CCI and Remington in my Glock, Beretta, and any of my Blackhawks.

    I would look at the dimple from the firing pin. Compare the Factory that shot fine with the reloads. Federal and Winchester primers are softer and my be more forgiving.

  6. #16

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    Well, sorry for the silence for a while, life got busy and sluthing my rifle issues had to wait. Here is the update, which actually surprised me:
    Sunday I spend the afternoon at the range with my son - he was shooting my 308 and I was testing the 25-06. I had a box of Hornady factory loads and an equal number of my reloads. I expected to find the factory loads fire and my reloads go "click."
    To my surprise every one fired!
    The only thing I have done since I first had this issue was take the bolt out and clean and lube it.
    A new issue cropped up Sunday in that after firing, the bolt was very stiff to open.
    I took the rifle to a gunsmith today and he looked it over.
    Before I start, one thing he told me is the piece is a commercial mouser, not a sporter. Shows how much I know about this rifle. That is a whole other story.
    For troubleshooting, he first took the bold apart and two small pieces of what look like pine needles fell out! I have no idea how they got in there, especially after I cleaned the disassembled bolt in a sonic bath, but if they were floating around inside they certainly could have slowed the bolt enough to prevent a solid strike on the primer.
    My reloads were within specs of the factory loads. There was a possible indication on the fired brass that my headspace may have been incorrect. However, the smith checked with a go/no go gauge and the spacing was fine. He even cut into an expended brass round to see if there were cracking near the base, which would be caused by a headspace problem. All was fine.
    He checked the bolt wear and fit to see why there was stiffness unlocking the bolt after firing, but everything looked fine.
    The only thing he really did was a slight filing of the stock where the bolt might have been rubbing. If the stiffness begins to bother me, or gets worse, he recommended polishing the bolt where the cam rides to ease the movement.
    Other than that, the mystery seems to have resolved itself.Name:  25-06 Firing Pin FOD.jpg
Views: 111
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    I have tried to attach a photo of four primers which have slight dimples and did not fire, and the offending pieces of foliage which came out of the bolt assembly.
    This was a very interesting issue, and I truly appreciate all those who gave inputs.
    I especially appreciate the guidance on resizing the brass. I hope to get some loading done this coming weekend, and will certainly try the suggested steps.

    "It's called hunting and not killing for a reason!"

  7. #17
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    Great news! I'm glad it was such a simple solution and that it didn't take major efforts to figure it out. I have seen the wrong lube solidifying in cold temps, once a milsurp bolt that was full of cosmoline and didn't get cleaned when the rest of the rifle did, and I have discovered all kinds of stuff that somehow found its way into the damnedest places inside of actions (especially lever-guns), but evergreen leaves inside the bolt causing an intermittent problem like that is one for the book. Thanks for sharing not only the problem, but also the followup. I'm never too old to be surprised and learn something new.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check        

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