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Thread: Volume or Weight

  1. #1
    GunLoad Trainee
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    Default Volume or Weight

    Is it better to weigh powder charges or use a dipper?

  2. #2
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    So I understand that you're not buying a powder measure ?

    Could you please tell us what calibers and applications you have in mind?

    Weighting every load is going to take days for any decent amount of shooting.

    Generally speaking, you should carefully weight several loads delivered by your dippers, as they can vary with the way you handle them and the level of powder in the source container, which also empties during the loading session. Try to make very regular motions.
    Write down the results for reference and check again when you buy a new jug of powder.

    Once you've found regularity, and as long as you're not shooting maximum loads, just check one load out of ten to keep yourself on your toes (and make sure the check doesn't end up with an unloaded case).

    Lots of benchrest shooters use powder measures, so weighting every charge is not mandatory.
    Just be aware that some powders are not metered very accurately, whatever the tool used. Sphericals and short sticks are the best, flakes can be despairing, but still give good accuracy in small pistol loads with several tenth of a grain of variation.

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    Last edited by kg42; 11-14-2007 at 10:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    It's all in how consistently you handle your tools. Dippers and meters can be very accurate IF you do it the same way each time.

    In a 40gr charge of a slow rifle powder, 2-3/10 of a grain really isn't going to affect your groups or velocity very much. But with a 4gr charge of a fast pistol powder, that same 2-3/10 can be a big issue.

    Extruded powders like the IMR's can be a real pain to meter consistently, but with careful technique, there is no reason a thrown charge should vary more than 1/10gr. I use a lot of 3031, 4064, & 4895 and have no real problems with my Uniflow meter and can easily keep the charges within 1/10. I do get some shearing of grains, but a firm hold on the handle and a tap or two to prevent the charge from bridging is enough. Flake and spherical powders are never a problem, but again, consistent motion and rhythm are crucial. It's also important not to let the reservoir get down below 1/4 full so that the cavity fills the same each time.

    Dipping is easier to get consistent with any powder, but it is much more time consuming. You still need to fill the dipper the exact same way each time, and strike off the excess with a playing card or a plastic credit type card. (I use an old NRA membership card that I keep in the box with the dippers.) The dippers never go out of adjustment like a meter can, nothing to loosen during use, so they are more foolproof. (Keep in mind though that a truly gifted fool can screw up anything, so watch out for Murphy.) I only use them when I have just a few rounds to load and it would be too much of a hassle to fill up the meter and empty it again.

    I use the scale to set the meter, check two or three charges to make sure of the correct setting, then I check again about every 20 charges or so. Lock nuts can loosen, and that can get you into trouble, too. I will also use the scale to double check that the dipper is throwing the charge weight it's supposed to, and I double check dipped charges regularly to make sure my technique is consistent.

    I don't weigh every charge, even with ammo for my most accurate rifles. I think it's a waste of time, but I did do so when I started out and kept doing it until I was confident in my ability to use the tools correctly.

    One thing I do insist on regardless of how I measure the powder is to put the cases in a loading block for the charging operation and then visually check the powder level in every case with a work light or a flashlight. Why? Every once in a while I do either miss a case or have a thrown charge bridge in the meter and only partially drop, (resulting in an under charge in one case, an overcharge in the next, and spilled powder all over the bench). It doesn't happen often - a handful of times in the last 35 years, but it does happen and the visual check is cheap insurance and good safe technique. Only once have I ever loaded an uncharged case (.45ACP, boolit stuck 2" up the barrel of my Glock), and that was loaded on my turret press with a meter on the powder-through-expander die. I was not actually looking into each case before seating and that was my error. I knew something was up from the weird sound upon firing and failure to feed the next round, so I stopped shooting and checked it out. I went back to using the loading block for all cases. I don't usually load more than 2000 rounds per month during shooting season (those months when the range isn't snowed in), so it's not much of an inconvenience time-wise.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  4. #4
    Grunt Hunter's Avatar
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    I myself prefer to load by weight. I believe there is a reason the loading manuals uses data in relation to weight.
    From my cold dead hands.
    If it ain't a Colt it is a copy.

  5. #5
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    I think it's so you can set your measure properly. FWIW, most bench rest shooters use volumetric measures and don't see the need to bother with weighing every charge. That was what made me rethink the issue. The measures most of them use are quite a bit more expensive and likely more accurate than what the rest of us use, true, but to prove it to myself I did experiments some years back with my .22-250 at 400yds to see if there was a difference in my group sizes using my Uniflow. As I remember, I loaded up two 50rd boxes, 100rds each way, dropping the weighed charges light and trickling them up to exact weight. Then I headed to the range and averaged 5 and 10 shot group sizes. There was no measurable difference in the numbers. The metered charges were all +/- .1gr of the chosen charge weight, 32.5gr 3031. Now I just use the scale to double check.

    I'm not saying everyone should do it my way, just explaining how and why I came to my current point of view. We all have our personal tricks and techniques developed over the years that not only give us our best accuracy, but also boost our confidence in our loads and our ability to shoot them at our best. That is no bad thing.

    I will generally give any new technique a try, and there are quite a few that I have found after careful experimenting not to make any real difference in my group sizes and that I no longer bother with. To name a few: cleaning cases, cleaning primer pockets (unless they get really crudded up), neck turning (except after case forming), indiscriminately crimping every round (unless for a revolver, lever or semi-auto action, or a hard kicker, unless they shoot better - so I test each gun), and of course weighing every charge.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

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