Die or shellholder problem?

[vmt_hntr]

I have a bud who is new to reloading, and he tells me when sizing the 22-250 for his Savage that when chambering the sized R-P case, the bolt will not close. The dies are new Hornady custom and he is using a Lee shellholder. I suggested he try another shellholder. I have been using a RCBS shellholder for all my various dies I size with, including Hornady and have never had a problem there. A factory round(Winch. Supreme BST 40gr) chambers without a problem. I have surmised the die is not pushing the shoulder back far enough and possibly the shellholder is a bit thicker than necessary, not allowing the case to fully enter the die, even tho the set-up of shellholder touching bottom of die is ok. Will glean more info from him tonite on this situation, but what does anyone else have to say about this?

[brianm]

is he fl sizing or neck sizing in a fl die.I had this prob with a 223rem if I neck sized in the fl die it would'nt chamber.

[DaveT]

Those new Hornady custom dies I'm sure are of good quality and made really close to spec. There are so many things that could be going on, do you live close to this novice reloader Bob? He needs to give you a call at least before he blows himself up.

[Rrusse11]

vmt,
Just a coupla' things that pop to mind,
A: Although the die may be set to touch the shellholder without a case in it,
how close is it to the base of the die on full stroke when the brass is in the die?
B: Bullet seating depth,,,,, might be hitting the throat afore the round is seated in the chamber..
C: Carefull comparison of the reload and factory round with calipers/micrometer should tell the story.
D: Does once fired brass chamber ez? How about after sizing with no bullet?
E: And IMO grinding/stoning off a bit of the shellholder is perfectly legitimate.
Cheers,
R*2

[vmt_hntr]

This bud of mine called me concerning this malady, as he always does when he needs more info on reloading.....just thought I would pass along this most unusual situation, as it has not happened to me in the 30+ years I have been reloading. Now to answer some more inquiries here....he is full length resizing once fired cases. Cases are trimmed to the proper length..and even with no bullet seated in the sized case, the bolt is not closing without much stiffness, or not at all. Upon measuring the sized case versus a factory round, it appears that the sized case is not being reduced enough in the body(probably in the neck area as well), which leads me to believe that either the shellholder is too thick or there might be a die problem here. I will get more info when I visit with him maybe this weekend, to determine more facts here. All this info was told to me over the phone, so am not sure he has followed criteria with die set-up, etc. Thanks for replies so far, but I need to gather more info before more assessment of situation. Keep ya posted.
Bob

[vmt_hntr]

My buddy dropped by this evening with all the stuff we've been concerned about with the hard bolt closure on his Savage...The Savage rifle;several once fired and sized cases;a Winchester Supreme Factory round; and one case with no powder, but with the Sierra boolit seated in the case that he wants to use once we get this situation straightened out. First thing I did was size the case in my dies with RCBS shellholder. I checked everything over real good: trim to length...1.902..ok;shoulder dia...416..ok;neck dia with no boolit..249...ok;neck length..238..ok; base dia...472..ok. I even went so far as to blacken the shoulder/neck area to detrmine fit in chamber...and found that the chamber touches the full length sized case just a little forward of the shoulder/case wall by about 1/32 of an inch....and that seems to be the problem...it should touch the case at a midway point on the shoulder, and it does not. The rifle headspace is wrong!! He told me as far as he knew, the rifle had never been fired, much less used any handloads. So, from all my measurements(I don't have a headspace gauge for the rifle)on the sized case, I think the headspace needs to be checked as the next step in determining the problem here. More comments here are welcome....
Bob

[Ed Barrett]

If the rifle is a savage you should be able to adjust the headspace with the barrel nut system on savage rifles, You said it's a new rifle, it may have slipped through quality control at the factory. I believe Brownell's site had info on adjusting a savage.

[old gunner]

If the rifle in question will chamber a factory round, the headspace is likely ok.
Most shell holders made in the last few years are very good, and will work with most any die. But still there are times when you may be hard pressed to make them work. Often a hard bump is required when setting up the sizing die. I have a RCBS press, and RCBS dies and shell holder that work perfectly with the shell holder barely touvhing the sizing die, if I use My Lyman press with the same set up I have to make a hard contact with the die and shell holder to get the proper headspace. I know when head space is right because I use a Wilson case gauge. This gauge may also be used to check the condition 0f a rifle by gauging the fired case.
Bill

[Deputy Al]

One other possible solution--exactly the opposite of Old Gunner's recommendation (which I agree with, BTW)--would be to partially full-length size the cases already fired in the Savage's chamber. Set the die about .025"-.030" off the shell holder--the tapered case wall of the 22-250 shouldn't make die wall contact and push the shoulder forward microscopically, as it sometimes can when the die is set without the ram "camming over" as in Old Gunner's recipe.

Try both methods--I suspect one or both will yield positive results. The partial F/L routine has two rather esoteric possible advantages--1) the case will remain pre-formed to the rifle's chamber dimensions 2) the cartridge neck will center itself more closely to the bore's axis with the unsized case neck area. Sort of a low-rent version of the tight chamber neck effect found in the mega-dollar benchrest guns.

I had a Rem 788 x 22-250 with this same little habit. I had to use both of these regimens to get ammo that would chamber correctly. I settled on the Old Gunner Method due to more reliable chambering and indiscernable accuracy difference between ammunition lots loaded with the two methods.

[vmt_hntr]

Been a while since I posted anything here, so will at least give you a run-down on situation. I didn't mention the fact that the 2 cases my buddy left here were tried in 2 other 22-250's...one a Ruger#1 and the other , an older 77 MK II Ruger...and both chambered just fine. So for what it's worth, he is going to have the headspace looked at and adjusted on this Savage 112. He may even take it to the Savage Specialist, at least in our area...Fred Moreo in Delphos, Ohio....Sharp Shooter Supply. Any other info will be posted as it unfolds...sorry for the delay here...boB...