View Poll Results: Your opinion of this combo of bullet and powder (small charge) in the Garand

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  • It will be safe and cycle the action

    0 0%
  • It will be safe but not cycle the action

    1 12.50%
  • It will be unsafe

    3 37.50%
  • It will be unsafe and hurt the gun

    0 0%
  • It will be unsafe and hurt the gun and you

    0 0%
  • It will blow up the gun

    0 0%
  • You are doomed

    3 37.50%
  • You are doomed and a heretic for abusing a CMP garand

    2 25.00%
  • Magic Brownies

    0 0%
  • Cowboy Neal

    0 0%
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Thread: New guy asks you to tell me the gotchas of reloading

  1. #11
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    I have never heard of a reliable way to determine on paper the minimum combinations to cycle a given action. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just that none of them have found me. Unless I am trying to get a newby used to progressively heavier recoil to work up to a hunting load, I don't usually bother with minimum loads, unless they happen to be really accurate. (I have a wadcutter load in .38spec with a very light charge of BEYE that my little snubby loves, but my carry load is with UNQ in the +P range.) Now bearing in mind that every firearm is different, I have usually found that in semiautos a mid-range charge produces the best accuracy. There are exceptions, and you will find some guns that like hot loads and some that want squib loads, and the only way to find out what any particular gun likes is to try many combinations in it and compare the targets. A "pet load" is often specific to the gun it was worked up in. Sometimes you just get lucky and hit on a good combination right away. And sometimes you dont....

    What are you going to use it for? Carry? Target? Hunting? Competition?

    With most of my handguns, when I have found an acceptably accurate load for the given purpose, I tend to stick with it. That doesn't mean I won't try a new powder or boolit mould to see what they will do, but most of my load development these days is with rifles, usually milsurps, and cast boolits. I do some custom loading for hunters, too, but again mostly for rifles and usually jacketed bullets. Whenever I buy or trade for a new Contender barrel, though, I will jump into it until I find the right load.

    I don't mess with my carry guns, except to practice with the chosen carry loads. I've had each of them a long time and have practiced with them until they are a part of my hand when I draw them. I like to be very used to those chosen loads and able to shoot them as instinctively as possible, not to have my head cluttered with details like "now, the POI is going to be a little low and left" that will get me or someone I care about killed if and when it hits the fan.

    Target pistols are a whole different mindset. With them, I don't care how fast the boolit is going, only that it is the most accurate combination of powder and boolit that I have found so far. For me, the features that make a great target pistol (long sight radius & large adjustable rear sight or decent scope) are usually diametrically opposite the features that make a good carry gun (big bore, short barrel, light weight, and snag free). I might be persuaded to put those lighter springs in a target pistol if that very light load was really accurate.

    My Contender, depending on the barrel, I use for both target and hunting, but it is primarily a hunting weapon. My criteria for hunting loads are: enough velocity to provide enough expansion for a clean kill at reasonable ranges with the chosen boolit/bullet. I tend to go for the highest velocity that give acceptable accuracy. I am not looking for the smallest possible groups necessarily, a six inch 100yd group for a deer load is acceptable if it moves at a few hundred fps faster than the two inch accuracy load. But, if there's a powder that will give me both velocity and best accuracy, I am grateful for the gift from the loading gods and use it happily.

    I don't shoot competitively, so advice along those lines is to listen to someone who does.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  2. #12
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    Hi All,
    kg42, yes this is MY first handgun of any kind. I have gotten over my flinch borrowing a P220, and I wanted a heavier gun than the 220 plus I wanted a much shorter trigger travel so that's why I got an all steel 1911. Having done the calculation of ammo cost VS reloading, I decided to get into reloading ASAP. Of course, I have still to make my first bullet, but I think I have finally ordered every little gizmo and widget that I need.

    So my motivation for reloading is mostly to save money, plus the more I learn about it reloading seem like a lot of fun, and opens up
    a whole world of load possibilites I never realized existed.

    versifier, I guess my main use for the gun is target practice. While I have a license to carry (here in MA) And have done so twice I do not yet have the mindset to do so on a regular basis. My favorite use for the gun is to plink at
    skeet clays I lay on the bank, and for that I feel there is no point in a regular full load in terms of cost of powder, and wear and tear on the gun. I break the gun down completely (even the trigger group) after every range session, so I was thinking of putting in a light spring before going to the range and then a regular spring for "everything else", but as I type this I realize that my plan is not fully baked.
    So at the moment I think I will try for reduced loads that give the best accuracy, and I suspect that finding that load will keep me busy for a while. I think I will get a real light spring just to try out the minimum loads needed to cycle the gun, to educate myself (a bit ) on where the edges of the envelope are. I don't think I am going to ever use the FIRST bullet I make. That I'm gonna frame, with a little sign that says ( The XXX Dollar Bullet), because the cost of all the equipment divided by one bullet = the cost of all the equipment.

    It's been a lot of fun so far, what with getting a box from midwayusa once a week, discovering that a #2 shell holder for a lee autoprime is not compatible with the lee press OR the lee case trimmer, then ordering a #2 shellholder for the press, and then discovering I have not got enough for the minimum order at midway, and getting a lee die set for 30 06 (cause it COMES with a #2 shell holder for the press) and a box of 30 cal gas checks to make minimum order. Plus of course a case trimmer set for 30 06. And then there is going to the goodwill store to get old cast iron pans to melt lead in, and bringing home 5 gal buckets full of wheel weights. I've gotten so I can pick one of those up and put it in the trunk, but then I need to rest 5 minutes before I pick up the next one.

    Now, when I start melting the wheel weights, will they make less smoke and smell if i wash them first? Or is there no real difference. I would seperate out the obvious paper and trash first. I will probably have to melt out back of the house, in a cast iron frying pan on one of those propane burners that are sold for turkey fryers, and I don't want to freak out the neighbors.

    Is the smoke from the weights visibly noticable, as though something was on fire,
    or is it mostly just invisible fumes you don't want to breathe?

    Thanks again all y'all for all your help and advise.

  3. #13
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    Not to put too fine a point on it, but the eastern half of the Peoples Republik of Mass is one of those places where carrying should be mandatory. That's why I moved north to NH 30 years ago from the greater Boston area. You're right, though, if you don't have the mindset, a cell phone and a pair of Nike's might serve you better. I had to carry a knife in grade school if I wanted to eat lunch, and I had a high school friend that spent a year in jail for cleaning a caplock pistol on his front porch. Enough was enough.

    Washing your wheel weights is only practical if you can get them completely dry before adding them to the melt. It doesn't matter for the first batch that you start cold, but after that as you are adding them to the liquid metal it sure does. Go next door to CB and search "Tinsel Fairy". Water (even very small amounts) causes explosions when added to molten metal.

    I pick through the ww's to remove all the trash and to separate the tape weights (pure lead) and most importantly the zinc ones that will contaminate the melt and make the product useless for casting. Search "zinc" next door, too.

    Any way you look at it, it's going to smoke. You can minimize visable smoke by removing all the trash, but there's always petroleum residues, oxidation, and road dirt on them that will burn off, and that does stink a bit. It's worst just after adding to the melt, and depending on what you use for flux (I use wax) that can smoke a bit, too. I guess it would depend on how thickly settled the area is. In the small amounts you'll be working on a turkey fryer, it doesn't really make a huge visible plume of smoke that looks like a house fire, but it might piss the neighbors off a bit if they were trying to BBQ downwind.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  4. #14
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    The smell is the big give away in urban area. it lingers around and is very offensive. That's the only complain I had when I lived in a block.
    Smoke is quickly diluted and people would have to look at it at the right time.

    I melt in the kitchen for discretion, with a draft going through the suite, and I can still smell it the next day. I wish I had a vent above the stove to blow everything through the chimney in a casual way.

  5. #15
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    versifier, I think the reason that the situation in the peoples democratic republic of meninostan is as bad as it is is because carry IS restricted. More guns, less crime (or less live criminals, anyway). I will search zinc next door, but if you have a way for me to identify the zinc weights I would love to hear it. I have noticed and identified the tape-on weights so I can use those to make a slug to press down a bore for the rifling diameter.

    kg42, I have the ability to make a forced draft over the melt, (I have a weakness for collecting large fans and blowers), and I think I will set it up so the fumes get blown up to an altitude that goes over the nearby houses. Also if I get all this done in the winter then there are no windows open next-door to get the smell in.

    As always, thanks all y'all for all your help and advice. If I can find a working camera and figure out how to upload a picture, maybe I can put up some wheel weight pics and y'all can help me figure out which ones are zinc.

  6. #16
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    Default From reading next door

    I guess the answer to zinc wheel weights is
    to keep the temp low enough so they don't melt!
    lead: 621.43 °F
    zinc: 787.15 °F
    and yes I cheated and cut and pasted that degree symbol

  7. #17
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    I agree completely about the problems in the PRM. I still have family and many friends there and wish more of them would move north so I could avoid the state altogether, but that's where the decent jobs are.
    There are pictures of many different varieties of zinc weights posted next door. Telltale signs are the steel clips are riveted on, the weights are covered with a hard plastic, or they say "Zn" on them. But just like in the kitchen: when in doubt, throw it out. And yes, keep your smelting temp low if you can. Once you see the steel clips floating on the melt, skim and trash anything that hasn't melted. Zinc weights will float on molten lead.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  8. #18
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    So I wonder which comes first: The decent jobs or the crime/graft/corruption. Seems like one should not be dependent on the other, but in DPRM they both exist... Do you think they are related to each other?

    When you say "hard plastic" do you mean the weights that are painted silver, or is it something else?

    Thanks for all you help and advice!

  9. #19
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    There has always been crime/graft/corruption. There have not always been decent jobs available. During and after WWII the employment situation brightened up considerably, before that times were pretty hard, to judge by the stories passed down in the family. But I never met a hog slopping out of the public trough that wasn't for sale. The more $ involved, the worse it gets. It's as bad up here often, but the scale is much smaller. Maybe it's much the same everywhere these days...

    The zinc weights I was talking about are flat, stick-on and coated with a hard gray plastic, maybe about 1x5/8". I'm sure there are photos of them posted.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  10. #20
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    If you are a beginning loader you need to get a manual or two,preferably Lee"s latest edition(because there is a lot of good info on casting and cast loads).Read them and get some experience.When and if you get to the point you want to experiment then do so.If you want to get a little further up the line find a handloader to show you some things first hand or take a class(some of the bigger sporting goods stores offer them). Frankly,reading your post makes me wonder if you and your guns will make it out alive!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check        

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