View Poll Results: Your opinion of this combo of bullet and powder (small charge) in the Garand

Voters
8. You may not vote on this poll
  • It will be safe and cycle the action

    0 0%
  • It will be safe but not cycle the action

    1 12.50%
  • It will be unsafe

    3 37.50%
  • It will be unsafe and hurt the gun

    0 0%
  • It will be unsafe and hurt the gun and you

    0 0%
  • It will blow up the gun

    0 0%
  • You are doomed

    3 37.50%
  • You are doomed and a heretic for abusing a CMP garand

    2 25.00%
  • Magic Brownies

    0 0%
  • Cowboy Neal

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: New guy asks you to tell me the gotchas of reloading

  1. #1
    GunLoad Trainee
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    Default New guy asks you to tell me the gotchas of reloading

    Hi All, new guy here. I've browsed the forums and learned a lot already. I want to develop
    some low power loads using cast bullets and
    bullseye powder for 45 acp (for a new 1911)
    and for a 30-06 Garand that will come from CMP. I have already gotten ahead of myself
    by getting getting some Lee molds: The TL452-230-2R for the 45 acp and a C309-160-1R for the Garand, and of course the Bullseye.
    I have read about the issue of reduced charges with slow powders possibly causing a secondary explosion. Lets say I start with loads well under the starting loads, which is about 4 grains in the 45, so say I start with 1 grain,
    and of course there is no
    published value for the 30-06 with bullseye, but say I start with 1 grain as well.

    What dangers do I need to look out for, other
    than making sure the bullet came out of the muzzle on each shot?

    As I increase the powder charge, how can I tell
    if pressure is becoming excessive in the Garand? Would you measure each casing before and after firing, and if so how? I have
    some photographs of overpressure cases in
    the Lee reloading manual, but they seem a
    bit subjective to interpret.

    Is there any chance I can develop a safe load
    for the Garand with the bullseye and the 160 grain bullet that will cycle the action and not beat up the rifle?

    If I gas check the 30 cal bullets, does that cause some special problems at low loads?

    Sorry for the choppy layout.. I'm from the days
    when people had to put in their own <CR> and <LF>, and we liked it!
    Thanks for you help.

  2. #2
    GunLoad Trainee
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    Default

    And I should add that I am ass-u-me-ing that Bullseye is a fast enough powder that I cannot get the secondary explosion problem.

  3. #3
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    Default

    BEYE will be great for your 1911, but I wouldn't even think about using it in a gas operated semi auto rifle. Your starting charge will not cycle the action, and I don't think it will be enough to push the boolit out of the barrel. In a Garand, you need to reach a pressure window wherein the proper peak pressure for cycling is reached just after the boolit passes the gas port and before it exits the barrel, or you risk damage to the operating rod (not an inexpensive part to replace and not a job for an amateur). Go over to Cast Boolits and search "Garand" for safe loads and appropriate powders. I do use Unique in .30cal bolt actions for some loads, and you might even find a load for BEYE that would be safe in a bolt or a single shot.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  4. #4
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Default

    http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm has Bullseye loads for the 30-06.

    And here are a few articles with data: http://p223.ezboard.com/fcurioandrel...icID=933.topic.

    I think all fast pistol powders are tricky when you raise pressures so don't try making that Garand work if it doesn't want to.

    For both calibers I would go from known data down to what's the minimum working your 1911, or a stuck bullet in the Garand (if that's what you want), in a time saving purpose .

    Note that some shooters use lighter than spec recoil springs to accomodate very light loads; don't mix your loads and springs if you chose that option.
    http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...l.aspx?p=16562

    kg

  5. #5
    GunLoad Trainee
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    Default

    Thanks all for your help and advice. I like versifiers poll choice, It's what I would have chosen myself.


  6. #6
    GunLoad Trainee
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    kg42, I see the 1911 springs at brownells go down to 7 lbs. Do you think that is still enough to chamber a round and close the action? I guess it must be if they sell them, but...

  7. #7
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    It's enough to cycle the action, but.... My choice would be a medium velocity load with a light or medium weight boolit. I would not want any springs in it but those for my carry load, and I would choose for a practice round a load with just a little more than the minimum to cycle with those springs. Still cheaper on powder and lead than full house loads, and a noticable reduction in recoil. (I would want an adjustable rear sight though, because your POI is going to be different.)
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  8. #8
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Default

    A 9mm top would be pretty good at saving on stress, powder and lead; you might even get away with the short 45 ejector.
    Unfortunately these conversion units often have very poorly fitted barrels.
    I used to have one in 9 luger with an old 45 recoil spring shortened until the slide stop worked. Getting back to 45 was very quick as I had an FLGR holding the parts together; and each slide was sighted for its ammo.

    Like Versifier said, try to make light loads for the gun as it is, you might be surprised by it's flexibility; factory springs are often on the sweet side of the official specs too...

    kg
    Last edited by kg42; 02-09-2007 at 09:41 PM.

  9. #9
    GunLoad Trainee
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    kg42, what is a FLGR?
    The 1911 I have is the S&W

    http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...09&isFirearm=Y

    I am a bit confused (OK, very) on the tradeoffs between bullet weight and powder to cycle the action of the 1911. I would think that if you multiplied the grains of powder weight * the grain of bullet weight that should be a constant for the minumum value to cycle the action.
    Is that right or wrong? Thanks again for all y'alls help and advice. Sorry for any mis-spellings, I just got back from having an ingrown toenail worked on. No, you don't want to hear about it if you are planning to have supper.

  10. #10
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Geeze man, that's already too much details! Now I have the image of a sore foot dancing on my screen.... And I AM having lunch!

    FLGR = Full Length Guide Rod.

    A recent government evaluation told me that I had the profile of a rocket (or plane) scientist, so I can safely tell you they are too many variables at hand to bother with equations for action cycling... And let Versifier deal with the question .

    More seriously, you will have to deal with a dirty gun, variable components, extractor tension and ejector length, etc...

    Still, I am interested in the loads you will develop vs springs weights. It is an interesting exercise to aim at the minimum nrj necessary to get the slide back in battery.

    It just dawned on me that it might be your first bigbore handgun and that you might have difficulties with factory full power loads; is that the case? How do you feel with starting loads?

    kg
    Last edited by kg42; 02-10-2007 at 12:43 AM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check        

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