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Thread: Anybody hunting with cast bullets?

  1. #11
    GunLoad Trainee
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    We still have some rather big hogs in the Big Bend area of Florida that carry Spanish genes! The only hogs found on the hill are feral hogs. The big boys go well into the swamps and coastal islands. That is good as they take some specialized hunting. These big boars should be classed as dangerous game!
    The guns we use are 12 gauge with rifled barrels, mainly semi-custom Remington 870 Express with Hastings barrels.
    It should be understood that when you put a rifled barrel on a shotgun, you have an ultra bore rifle on a shotgun frame. The very basic knowledge you all have using hard cast bullets in handguns/rifles, still hold true loading the big 730"-730 grs cast bullets for the 12 bore rifles. Most of today's slug loads, Foster and sabot load are a compromise at best! First of all they are swaged lead and are too soft!
    But, when you move up the heavy hard cast slugs, heat treated, you have re-introduced the basic Afican/India Paradox loads. Even the Lee Key Slug (one ounce only)cast hard and heat treated works good in both smoothbore and rifled guns. We have done a great deal of testing on the Lee Key Slug and found only one wad that would not strip when using hard cast......the Federal 12S3!!!!!! You do need about .200" hard card wad under the Lee, inside the wad, to set the crimp index. The 12S3 does not have ridges inside the petals and that is why it will not strip.
    So......don't overlook loadind the big cast stuff!........Regards, James
    Last edited by Dixie Slugs; 08-09-2006 at 02:52 PM.
    Dixie Slugs-Home of the Original Dixie Terminator

  2. #12
    lovedogs
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    Hey, Lovedogs here. I've been shooting silly-wet competitions for about 3 years now using a .45-70. It uses 1881 style 500 gr. with 20:1 alloy, 23 1/2 gr. 5744 for 1150 FPS. Wonderful silhouette load that shoots great to a 876 yd. steel buffalo. I'd like to get a 300 to 350 gr. mould and use cast to hunt deer with. The 300 gr. jacketed I've used really flatten deer and antelope.

    This fall I started using cast in my .44 pistols for deer hunting. My Saeco 240 gr. RNFPGC's at 1600 FPS out of the Super 14 Contender is a great deer slayer.

    I've got a ways to go to be in Ranchdog's category but I'll try to remedy that if I can afford a few more rifles. I'm itching to try a good .30-30 (Marlin) some day.

  3. #13
    GunLoad Trainee
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    No longer hunt but a good load for 10" SBH is lyman 429244 sized appropriately for chamber mouth, 24 gr IMR 4227 WLP and Norma brass. WW brass is probably cheaper and more readily available currently. Might be able to bump the load w/WW cases but do so w/care.

    Another good load, same gun, same everything else, is the Lyman 429215.

    Never checked the velocity of the 429244 but the 429215 chronographed at 1550 fps from 10" barrel.

    429215 is a good 100 yd load and the 429244 was great up to 200 meters in the old IHMSA days w/iron sights only. Actually nailed a nice muley at 155 yds w/the 429244.

    Don

  4. #14
    GunLoad Trainee
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    Default Lee slugs in rifled 12 gauge . . .

    Dixie Slugs, you touched on a subject I've been looking for the voice of experience to tell me about. I have a number of questions concerning traditional style slugs in rifled bores. Most of the people I've talked to are of the opinion that Forster (sp?) slugs don't give good results witha rifled barrel. It seems to me there are several factors which would cause this:
    1. Being rifled, soft and hollow, they don't provide sufficient strength or contact surface for the rifling to grip and probably strip badly. It seems to me what's needed is a wheel-weight cast slug with thicker walls and smooth cylindrical sides.
    2. No lubrication for all that bore length. Even my smoothbore barrel shows a silvery frost at the muzzle and it's not an even distribution. A way to address this using a handloaded slug is with lube grooves, a shot cup or paper-patch them with teflon-tape over the paper-patch. This has worked very well in a .375 Win.
    3. Twist rate. The Paradox guns were only rifled for about 2 - 4 inches at the muzzle (like a rifled choke) and the 12-bore had a rate of 1 turn in 100 inches. Very gentle. Today's rifled slug barrels have a 1 in 34" rate which is three times faster, though necessary for the longer .44 and .45 bullets to be stabilized, thus commiting me to the use of $2-a-shot sabot slugs unless I can come up with a less expensive alternative which I thought the Lee arrangement might be, but had no one to ask.

    How does my surmise compare with your experiences, and have you experimented with rifled chokes? What diameter are the Lee slugs when cast of a stout alloy?

  5. #15
    GunLoad Trainee
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    You have an excellent grasp on the overall situation. The undersize soft Foster slugs have killed lots of thin-skin game over the years.....up close or as an accident at longer ranges. The were some funs made with undersize smoothbore barrels (abt.724") that shot fairly well. It would help if the factories would apply an Alox wash on the to at least help the leading problem.
    You are also correct on the rifling tqiat on modern shotgun rifled barrels......to fast and designed for Sabot rounds. Added the fast twist to a very soft lead undersize slug and the results speak for itself. Ay least the Hastings barrel is .727" in the grooves and .717" on the lands......and super smooth!
    You are also correct on the Paradox. Remember the slug/bullets designed for it were "squared" (length near the diameter) and shot well with a round ball twist. Also, they were made hard!
    The Lee Kee Slug mold I have is not true round and runs .655"/.670" and weighs about an ounce with WW metal. These slug cast from WW, heat treated at 450 for an hour and water quenched) in the mentioned Federal 12S3 works pretty gun in both smoothbore and rifled barrels. In rifled barrels the velocity should be held aroud 1400'/" or less.
    The hard cast heat treated full bore Dixie slugs do perform well in the fast twist guns.....I think a slower twist would be better though. The well known Dixie Terminator is .730" diameter & .735" long......weighs 730 grs. if you run that through Greenhill, you would see it also would be stabile at the old Paradoa twist when pushed 1200'/" to 1400'/".
    So, where are we? In thinking of full bore solids in 12 bore (.730"), we find they react design-wise the same as the karge cast handgun rounds......just bigger!
    As more shot-gun-only states allow muzzleloaders (Balck and smokeless) and Pistol Round Rifles......you will see a fall off of the sabot rounds ans expensive guns designed for them. Since those areas give Dixie no business, our business will remain as it is. I will say that there is a real increase in states other than shotgun-only for a handy shotgun with a rifled barrel, shooting full bore ammo, in dense cover. The Southern shotgun shooter is buying rifled barrels to put on their existing firearm.
    Regards, James@Dixie Slugs
    Dixie Slugs-Home of the Original Dixie Terminator

  6. #16
    GunLoad Trainee
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    Hello Again Friends! That hog was killed by a friend across the river. Here in Florida we still have some Spanish and Russian genes in our wild hogs. The big boars a very shy about their sows and go ay back into the swamps. Most of what's killed in the hill country are smaller Ferals.
    This looks like a good bunch of fellows! Maybe you will drop over to Dixie Slugs (dixieslugs.com) and say hello!
    Regards, James
    Dixie Slugs-Home of the Original Dixie Terminator

  7. #17
    GunLoad Trainee
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    After five years of trying I have finally found THE load for my Marlin 1895g. Does everything I want done and is still shootable. I started with new Remington brass, annealed the first inch using the melted lead method, belled with a Lee expander and primed with CCI 200. The powder charge is 52gr AA 2495. I started with 48 and worked up with no signs of pressure. This is a compressed load, even using a 16 inch drop tube. The magic bullet is cast in a Lyman 451114 mould. The alloy is 17 parts pure lead, 2 parts linotype, and part tin. The bullet drops from the mould .451, 430gr and is ready for patching. I make my patches from 16lb green bar computer paper, cut 2.750 long on a 60* angle 1.500 high. I dip in water and wrap twice around the bullet. They are left to dry overnight, then lubed with BAC. Then the tails are clipped and the bullet is run through a .459 Lee sizing die. I seat them to an OCL of 2.580. These shoot clover leaf groups at 25 yards and into 1.75 at 100. This is with a Lyman 66 rear sight and factory front sight. Not bad for 55 year old eyes. Bullet performance on game is all one could ask for. Ill not quit experimenting, but how does one improve on perfection?

  8. #18
    GunLoad Trainee
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    I hunt with a SRH .44. I am casting a 310 LBT style bullet with WW (water dropped). I use 20gr of 296. This has proven to be the most accurate load for me (.5 to .75 at 25 yards). As far as hunting, dropped a black bear at 35 yards, bullet went through the front shoulder and came out the other side, the bear rolled over and never moved again.

  9. #19

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    [QUOTE=kg42;1806]What are your calibers, loads, alloys, accuracy and games? :

    Yep sure do... Matter of fact I have never used a jacket bullet on anything
    I cast my pills as soft as possible for the velocity and use a flat nose heavy bullet.
    I hunt with 41 mag (my personal favorite) 375 Super Mag and 357 mag all Revolvers (Dan Wesson and one Blackhawk I am partial to)
    Rifle.. 45-70 (hard to beat big holes) 375 Winchester and 38-55 ... once again as soft as possible and flatnosed. I also have a Krag that will soon be another river bottom rifle.
    Deer (Flintlock)... groundhogs.. and any couger that I get a chance at that Illinois refuses to admit they released 10 years ago.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check        

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