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Thread: 311291 with a .300 weatherby magnum

  1. #1

    Default 311291 with a .300 weatherby magnum

    I asked this question over at CB, was wondering if anyone on here had any ideas..
    http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...ead.php?t=5397

  2. #2
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Mmmmmmmm Mr Master, that's a big case you've got there... :0

    My notes from the Hodgdon Data Manual Nr 25 for the 308 Norma Mag are as follow:

    150GC: 17grH4227/1565fps, 25grH4198/1844fps, 30grH4895/1878fps
    180GC: 18grH4227/1520fps, 25grH4198/1803fps, 30grH4895/1736fps.

    These are maximum loads.

    kg

  3. #3

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    Thanks KG, I like shootin the big guns

    I got this info sent to me:
    Red Dot 16.0-19.0
    700x 14.0-17.0
    Green Dot 16.0-19.0
    unique 18.0-22.0
    sr-7625 15.0-18.0
    630 21-26
    sr-4759 30.5-40.0
    rx7 37.0-48.0
    748 45.0-60.0
    h4895 40.5-56.0
    imr-4064 42.0-60.0

    I'm wonderin about that H4895....

  4. #4
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunload Master
    I'm wonderin about that H4895....
    Why?
    The free data manual Booklet gives 62.3 as a max with a 150grBAR(nes?)XBT/3098fps/53400cup (300wby).

    IMR's Guide gives 64gr max for the 300win and their 4895 with a 150gr jacket (3210fps/53000cup).

    Have a look there, but it's about 4759 and 4198:
    http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm
    And maybe some more ideas there:
    http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

    And from a post at Graybeard for the 300win:
    "Lyman's manual(45th Ed) shows:

    155gr gas check:
    15 - 18gr unique, 23 - 27gr 2400, 24 - 28gr 4227

    173gr gas check:
    14 - 17gr unique, 22 - 26gr 2400, 22 - 27gr 4227

    193gr gas check:
    14 - 16gr unique, 20 - 27gr 2400, 20 - 27gr 4227 "

    What kind of speed did you want?
    Last edited by kg42; 03-09-2006 at 01:08 AM.

  5. #5

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    Well, I was wanting around 3,200. I am not too knowledgeable on cast boolits but I am trying. So bare with me But do you think I could push these that fast?

  6. #6
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Of course Master, this shall be done, speed is only one element in a load's life

    2700 fps is usually considered about the max with gas-check, linotype/equivalent and the best lubes.
    It seems to be easier in small (.22) calibers with short, stubby bullets; one of the issues being the warping of long noses, even hard cast.
    You should go through the old Castboolits posts for recipes and experiments. I borrowed "The Art of Bullet Casting" from the library yesterday but none of the articles covers magnum rifle calibers.

    For such speeds I would go the Paper Patch way. The NRA states that 3000fps was achieved in a 300WinMag.
    There is (was?) a good summary about it in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. I could type the essential in the "Paper Patch" thread if anybody is interested. Unfortunately that handbook was stolen from the library and I didn't copy the rifle loads before...
    Also I posted a few links with essential pictures in that PPatch thread.
    if hunting is your aim, you might run in conflicts between speed and bullet hardness.
    Last edited by kg42; 03-09-2006 at 03:50 PM.

  7. #7
    Great Master d-o-k's Avatar
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    Master . What about 150 gn MIN 61.7 & a Max of 69.0 of H4895 for the Weatherby 300 mag which gives just over the 3300fps mark ? or a reduced load of 41.4 of H4895 with the 150 gn cast ?

    Dave
    All times wasted wot not spent shootin

  8. #8
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Dave, what kind of alloy do you use for hunting, and for which calibers besides the 30-30?
    Can you keep track of the bullet fragmentation/weight retention?

    thnks

  9. #9
    Great Master d-o-k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kg42
    Dave, what kind of alloy do you use for hunting, and for which calibers besides the 30-30?
    Can you keep track of the bullet fragmentation/weight retention?

    thnks

    I use a mixture of 50 % linotype & 50% of range salvaged lead,I weed out the .22 stuff ! I hunt with .22 hornet (40-45 gn ) .303brit 185,215 gn & 45-70 405 gn & my lad uses his (was my rainy day converstion martini project ) 310 cadet with a 125gn rn I tend to find with the larger bullets I get very little fragmentation & about 60-75% wieght retention . But I use solids & only drive them at moderate verlosities ! Relying on more bullet placement than anything else ! I am in the school of thought of a miss costs me money .So it's a case of if I don't think I can take the shot I want I don't risk it On the little Hornet bullets I have found that they dont retain much of their weight & tend to be a little brittle on anything bigger than a fox .

    Dave
    All times wasted wot not spent shootin

  10. #10
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    I cannot make a powder recommendation here, nor lube, as I wouldn't even think about trying to push them as fast as 3200fps, but I do have a few thoughts on the matter and the difficulties involved. The speediest .30 cal load I use is with the Lee 113gr "soupcan", 2700fps, with RE-7 out of a .30-30 case. It is a GC boolit, cast from pure lino and water dropped. (As hard an alloy as it is possible to achieve.) Though I have tried, I have never personally been able to stabilize anything heavier at much over 2000fps in a .30-30, .30 Herrett, .308, or .30-06.
    The problem with pushing them so fast is that the boolits strip in the rifling, filling up your grooves with lead alloy. These incompletely stabilized boolits shoot "groups" like a shotgun pattern, fliers and keyholers. With such a hugely capacious case, it is also a necessary added safety precaution to "upend" it (point the muzzle straight up in the air) after chambering and before each shot to insure proper ignition of the powder and avoid the danger of SEE.
    It's amusing, as I often find myself trying to explain to people who want to hunt deer with vastly underpowered cartridges that what they need is a bigger case. The problem here is that you are using a case designed to throw a 180+gr jbullet at mv's that retain enough energy to cleanly take a deer at beyond 300yds. Do not despair, though, you can shoot cast out of it, and you can do it safely, but the WBY case has about 5X the powder capacity necessary. The inherent strength (or the lack thereof) of lead and lead alloys is the limiting factor here. They aren't hard or strong enough to be spit out at hyper velocities. The combination of very hard alloy, gas check, and paper patching (which needs an undersized boolit to start with) can gain you some velocity, but I doubt you will be able to even approach 3000fps with a boolit whose weight will be well stabilized with the twist rate of your barrel (180-220gr, IRRC). This is not to say that you can't get safe, accurate, and effective hunting loads worked up for use at reasonable (150yds) ranges, or various target loads for anything from plinking to silhouettes at much longer ranges, you just have to be aware of the practical limits that you have to work within. If your expectations are reasonable, you can have a lot of fun and satisfaction while you're at it.
    One other idea that might make load development easier and safer is one of those cartridge conversion adapters. I'm not talking about a chamber insert. These are gizmos whose outer dimensions match the chambering and hold a smaller case of the same caliber. They feed through the magazine like the case for which the rifle is chambered. They come apart and are available to hold anything from a .30Carb to an -06 case. If you got one in .30-30, 7.62x39, or .308, you would then have a case with the appropriate powder capacity for the light charges that are all cast boolits require, with no potential ignition problems or SEE danger.
    "Stand your ground.
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    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check        

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