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Thread: Paper Patch Bullets

  1. #1
    Great Master kodiak1's Avatar
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    Wink Paper Patch Bullets

    Want to take the next step up the ladder of Bullet Casting. Have a sharps in 40-90SBN that I would like to start paper patch loading.
    Questions
    How much smaller than the bore does the mould have to be?
    What is a good make of mould, prefer to get a custom built are adjustable moulds any good?
    How many wraps of paper?
    Do you crimp the bullets?
    What kind of paper to use?

    Will think of more that I have forgotten.
    Any input would be wonderful thanks Ken.
    Ken.

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  2. #2
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    Well in case we don't have a guru here...:
    (me I totally agree that these metal patched bullets they try to sell us are just a fling, and I would go paper patch rather than search for the holy grail with lubes and alloys, but I mostly shoot handgun at the time so...)

    Make a web search for "paper patched", "paper patching", and read first from Paul A Matthews, who has a nice web page and sells a book too; or maybe the nice site I remember is that one: http://www.iastate.edu/~codi/PPB/PPB.html

    Then, graybeardoutdoors' forum has a section for PP'ing.

    I think the Cast Bullet Association has published stuff too, and there might be a Yahoo group...

    What I understand is that you will make two wraps around the bullet, which should slightly bite the grooves; but read from the shooters first and then we can compare notes

    For the paper, an interesting idea I once read is that AirMail grade paper could come handy... you might try it before me obviously. If the bullet has to bite the grooves the paper thickness will have to match their dimension.

    keep us (or me) informed on your progress.

    kg
    Last edited by kg42; 03-03-2006 at 08:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    Go over next door to the Cast Boolits forum and contact Buckshot, who know a lot about it, or start a thread over there and everyone will jump in.
    "Stand your ground.
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  4. #4
    Great Master Bullshop Junior's Avatar
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    Wink Kodaik1---Let me see if I can help.

    Quote Originally Posted by kodiak1
    Want to take the next step up the ladder of Bullet Casting. Have a sharps in 40-90SBN that I would like to start paper patch loading.
    Questions
    How much smaller than the bore does the mould have to be?
    What is a good make of mould, prefer to get a custom built are adjustable moulds any good?
    How many wraps of paper?
    Do you crimp the bullets?
    What kind of paper to use?

    Will think of more that I have forgotten.
    Any input would be wonderful thanks Ken.
    Kodiak1,

    My dad uses some paper patch in his 45/70, and some other rifles.

    How much smaller than the bore does the mould have to be? About 7-10 thousands smaller. My dad uses heavy handgun bullets in his 45/70, one time used 348 bullets in his 35 wellen, and one time used 6.5 bullets in his 7 tcu.

    What is a good make of mould, prefer to get a custom built are adjustable moulds any good? Just about any any mold that is the right diameter, and is a design that you like.

    How many wraps of paper? My dad uses a gauge that he traces out, and that is the size that the patch has to be.

    Do you crimp the bullets? Depends, but mostly yes.

    What kind of paper to use? Cotton tracing paper.

    That is about all that I can do.
    DANIEL/BS JR.

    (Reminds me of what I do to my brothers)

  5. #5
    Great Master d-o-k's Avatar
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    I'm going to show my ignorence here reguards the type of paper used for patching bullets & ask (A) would grease proof/wax proof paper sufice ? (B) what is the advantage of paper patched bullets ? I owned a 577-450 years ago & it came with the origanal Ammo (some what green with age ) but the bullets were paper patched . I might also add the cases were soldiered to the base & up the side seem were they'd been formed ! scary stuff !

    Dave
    All times wasted wot not spent shootin

  6. #6
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    (A) would grease proof/wax proof paper sufice ?
    Are you talking about cooking greased paper or factory packing paper ? Shooters have used teflon tape, for example. Too thick and the bullet won't grab the grooves.

    (B) what is the advantage of paper patched bullets ?
    You can use soft lead and not too magic lube at high vel ; unlubed patches will polish your bore ; and no more gaschecks albeit some have tried both at the same time (someone at castboolits I think).


    Quote Originally Posted by d-o-k
    I owned a 577-450 years ago & it came with the origanal Ammo (some what green with age ) but the bullets were paper patched . I might also add the cases were soldiered to the base & up the side seem were they'd been formed ! scary stuff ! Dave
    Well the first cartridges had paper body attached to the head, if yours were silver soldered they were probably a high end product
    Look at http://www.municion.org/ for more scary stuff...

    More reading there: http://members.shaw.ca/bobschewe/

    kg

  7. #7
    Great Master d-o-k's Avatar
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    Kg . Thanks for clearing up the reason & I was refering to the type of paper used in cooking . would this be sutible ?

    Dave
    All times wasted wot not spent shootin

  8. #8
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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    dok, i just found my notes on PP'in.
    I don't know about the cooking paper, I would give it a try at low pressure load. I'm not sure it could take much stress though, I don't have any at hand now... Another issue is that the process involves wetting the paper so that it dries/grabs on the bullet before lubing and final sizing.

    An article from a Lyman CB Handbook based on the NRA's and some Col. Harrison works asks for " high grade bond with a 25% coton fiber content of about .0033 thickness".
    Work in a 300 Win mag reached 3000fps with accuracy. Alloys recommended are however harder than I remembered with 16-20 bhn above 2500fps, 12-15 for most other applications.

    Matthews recommends strong paper too (if not linen fiber), his best being 9 pounds 25% cotton fiber onion skin, cut across the grain (the fiber should be cut by the rifling during shooting, so must be wrapped perpendicularly).
    He talks about 3 to 5% tin alloy for hunting and expansion.

    That's pretty strong but then shooters have used about every paper they could think of; I think it depends on the load and the process : if you have to resize the patched bullet or not, etc...

    Also, about the diameter of the bullet, aside for the recommendation to use slightly over bore diameter (Not over groove), several (Ray Ordorica, Ross Seyfried) have patched bullets much smaller, like 458 for 470NE (3 wraps), with success.
    Maybe BullShop could talk about his experiments.
    Last edited by kg42; 03-08-2006 at 01:31 AM.

  9. #9
    Private C1PNR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-o-k
    Kg . Thanks for clearing up the reason & I was refering to the type of paper used in cooking . would this be sutible ?

    Dave
    Is that the "parchment" paper used sometimes in the oven? Never tried that, and just seems a little thick.

    As mentioned above, 9 lb onion skin of 25% cotton fibre is frequently used, even for home made "flash paper" for breach loading black powder arms.

    In my case the flash paper was used to make loads for a repro Sharps Carbine model of 1854 in .54 caliber. We made our own by soaking the onionskin in our home made solution. That paper is quite durable and still burned completely. We used black powder and a Miniť in .54 caliber lighted off by a Musket (Top Hat) cap.
    Regards,

    WE

  10. #10
    Gunload Grunt kg42's Avatar
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