Velocity is overated!

[DaveT]

Yea you read the subject right, velocity is a very overated factor in loading rounds for hunting. I thought we needed a good contraversial subject, a subject that gets peoples juices going. I will use my .270 Winchester as an example, I have found over the years that it doesn't make one spit of difference if I load 130 partition @ 3,000 fps or if I load it @ 2,700 fps, the gun kills the same. If I place the bullet where it should be placed and do my part velocity has nothing to do with the kill, it is shot placement that seperates the quick humane kill from the gut shot suffering animal. We are in this trend in America where faster is better, just look at all the new cartridge developments in the last several years. The Remington Ultra Mags are geared for nothing but higher velocity, no one will tell me that a 300 Remington Ultra Mag will kill an elk any faster then a well placed shot from the old standby 300 Winchester Mag, we are programmed to believe this and to spend our money. And please don't give me the stuff about, "well I want to shoot that elk at 450 yards so I need the extra velocity", bull unless you are set up to shoot that far and you are well trained at shooting that distance, you shouldn't be doing it. I know you varmint hunters will take issue with all this and I will say that if there is one exception, it is in varmint hunting, but even then most of us are not set up or skilled enough to shoot beyond a couple hundred yards. Well there you have it, if I got your blood boiling, good, let's hear some sensible feed back.....
Dave T

Our freedoms are not free, they can't be bought with money, they can only be bought with blood.

[Gunload Master]

On my Mr. Reliable 300 Weatherby, I use a Shepeard scope. If you don't know what they are, it's basically a range finder inside the scope, but it uses Circles. Each circle represents 18 inches at a given distance. From 100 Meters to 1000 Meters. The scope is setup for 3200 FPS. I have loaded rounds around 2,900 FPS and 3200 FPS and I can say it really does make a difference when you get out even to 200 meters there is noticable difference. The 3200 FPS is perfect for the circles. Whereas the 2,900 FPS has some loss. If it's noticeable at 200 meters, I can only imagine a 500 meter shot. So I stick with 3200 for my 300 weatherby. Basically what I am saying is that Velocity at least from the shepard scope standpoint is a must.
Good topic.

[Wayne Smith]

Frankly, at least in the East, there's nothing that can't be killed with the 30-30, cast bullet @ 1500 or so. That's mostly true in the West, but more range is desired. (Remember, everything there was killed with the .50 caplock) So, are we really talking about what's needed, or wanted?

[Wayne Smith]

Sorry, the above post is unfinished. I was writing at work and got interrupted.

I was gonna add that the exception to the above is dangerous game, and that doesn't need more velocity as much as it needs a bigger hole and a repeating rifle.

The only place I can see velocity being needed is in the long range varmit (sp) shooting.

We can talk all day about special application uses, but generally I agree, more velocity isn't the best answer to most hunting questions. From the 30-30 go to the 30-06 class of cartridges and you've basically covered hunting in America. For truly dangerous game add the 45-70, and you're still barely in the last century in cartridge development.

[pop_no_kick]

Sorry, the above post is unfinished. I was writing at work and got interrupted.

I was gonna add that the exception to the above is dangerous game, and that doesn't need more velocity as much as it needs a bigger hole and a repeating rifle.

The only place I can see velocity being needed is in the long range varmit (sp) shooting.

We can talk all day about special application uses, but generally I agree, more velocity isn't the best answer to most hunting questions. From the 30-30 go to the 30-06 class of cartridges and you've basically covered hunting in America. For truly dangerous game add the 45-70, and you're still barely in the last century in cartridge development.

yep!

my $0.02 worth
chuck

[C1PNR]

I do have to admit that I bought a .300 Win Mag because I felt I "needed" more velocity (range) for some of the hunting situations I encountered going after Colorado Elk.

My '06 just could not handle some of those 350 to 400 yard hillside to hillside cross canyon situations with enough authority to quickly kill an Elk. Getting closer was not a possibility in the conditions we were facing.

A steady rest, and accuracy with the rifle/load, wasn't the issue, so I moved up to the .300 to gain 200 to 250 fps in velocity and 15 grains in bullet weight (165 grain '06 @ ~2,750 to 2,800 to 180 grain @ ~3,000) and I've never been sorry.

Shorter range and smaller game, anything from .257 Roberts up through the various milsurps to '06, including several lever actions, is fine with me. So far I've never tried the 8mm hunting, but may with a good lead boolit design and an accurate load.

I just believe that, within reason, velocity can make a difference.

[d-o-k]

I belive that in certain situations hiher verlosities do make a differance ! But at what point are we going overboard? Lets face it how many of us own a Conny & can really see what we're pushing our loads to! I've just retired as a PH & was getting around 12mths out of a .223 barrel.These were at moderate loads .Whereas some ofthe younger (an some of the older shooters) were burning out barrels in 6mths & cursing the accuracy of their rifles & ammo! I think at the end of the day it 's a matter of suiting the load to the rifle/game!
I always have used moderate loads & cast bullets in my 45-70 & have downed a lot of Camels with it & none ever complained over the fact that they were hit by a big hunk of lead travilng at 1400fps & not the same at 2000fps!

Dave

[Toney]

i picked up a used chrony for $50 i was really shocked .
most of my loads are pretty slow . my 357 mag load
for my woods gun only went 1100fps . from the thump
on the chest and almost blowing my hat off i thought
it was a lot faster . i don't think my 7mm mauser flyes
fast enough to expand most bullets with the 19" barrel
from the blast i though it had to be flying at least 27_2900
fps but it was only 24-2600 with max charge under a 130
grain speer spbt the flat based bullet are a lot slower and
seem to be really hard . bt wrecks meat . with the flat bases
you can't even see the entrance hole . last year shot big
10 point thought i shot him in the head he had knocked
one of his antlers off. felt the little blood drip on his shoulder and could'nt
feel entrance wound

[j1]

Good thing Roy Weatherby is dead and cannot hear you. He was the biggest proponant of high velocity. Always thought that a 257 would be a great choice but already had my 30 06. My old friend (the 06) took everything I ever shot not THAT fast either. Just fast enough to reach out there and touch something.

[elkhunter77]

I am probably the second biggest lover of velocity. Speed kills. The faster I make a bullet go the happier I am. Of course, things are a bit different here in the area where I live. Things like a 30/30 are pretty much useless. Open country and lots of it, winds and big game means fast for me anyway. Does not mean it kills any better, just that I like it better LOL