Reduced Loads in .303 Kapok???

[gofst62]

Hi all. I am new to reloading cast in rifles but have several old Military I want to play with. Just picked up the newest Lyman Cast Bullet manual to update from my early 80's version. I am going to load a Montana 200 gr. and am looking at a start load of only about 11gr of Unique. The old manual goes into great depth about the need for a filler of Kapok or Cream of Wheat, etc. The new manual does not mention this factor at all??? What's the deal on this? Have practices changed? Seem like something of this import would not be left out but I sure can't find any mention in the new source.
THX
Dan

[Paul B]

When it comes to Cream of Wheat (COW) don't walk, run away. If you use enough to hold the powder in place it will compact and literally become a solid. I was using it for a very nice load in my 45-70 until I had a misfire. Dunno if the primer was contaminated or was bad from the factory. When I got home I pulled the bullet expecting the COW and powder to just pour out. No go. That COW was as hard as a rock and I had to use a small screwdriver to dig it outof the shell. Imagine having that compaction in a bottleneck cartridge and the potentially very high pressure that would ensue. Later on, I loaded up some more rounds for the 45-70 using a one grain tuft of Dacron and when I ran these over the chronograph, I found I'd lost a bit over 100 FPS. The powder I was using was SR4759, a very good powder for cast bullets.
I used Kapok for years but found dacron easier to work with. You buy Dacron batting that is used for quilting, the one half inch thickness works best for me. Cut a piece with scissors 1/2"x1/2" any it will weigh right at one grain or close to it. Another trick you might try is a quarter square of toilet paper lightly tamped against the powder. I prefer that to the dacron when using charges of Unique. The TP is scattered about like so much confetti which you will note if shooting into the wind. Dunno about the .303, but I find most of he time with the 30-06 I get my best accuracy in the 1600 FPS level. Sometimes it a little slower or a bit faster but on average 1600 FPS works quite well. That's with the Lyman #311284, a 220 gr. bullet. I have on occasion knocked over the pig silhouettes at 200 meters with that load. You have to hit it near the top to knock it over as the darn things weigh about 50 pounds.
Paul B.

[versifier]

I have never bothered with fillers. I shoot cast in 6.5x54, 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57, .30-30, .308, .30-06, 75.Swiss, 7.7Arisaka, and .303Brit. I generally avoid pistol powders in my cast loads these days, but since I started playing with cast rifle loads in the early 80's I have happily burned many pounds of Unique and 2400 experimenting. It always requires raising the muzzle of the rifle straight up before each shot to insure consistant ignition with so little powder in the case. I have never wanted to deal with the potential problems arising from adding the extra variable of fillers to the equation. My focus is mostly on deer hunting loads, not low velocity target or plinking loads, so I much prefer the higher loading density of reduced loads of RL7, IMR3031, and IMR4895 rifle powders to get as much energy as the bullet alloy I'm using will allow.

That does not mean that lots of folks don't get great results with fillers of various kinds, or that you shouldn't experiment with them yourself, merely that I have often had excellent results without them. I'm sure you will get a lot of opinions pro and con here, and you should search next door at Cast Boolits for many in depth discussions on the issue.

Many powders have changed in the last 30+ years, and data in the manuals now reflect testing with modern technology to measure pressure with greater precision that the older obsolete copper and lead crusher methods. That may well have a lot to do with the disappearance of data using various fillers.

[runfiverun]

you don't need a filler with unique it ain't position sensitive.
sometimes 2400 benefits from a filler.
powders like h-322 through about 4064-4350 benefit from a filler as a powder positioner.
and to help raise burn pressure.
if you do use a filler you want to make sure it touches both the powder and the base of the boolit compresses it slightly.
the problem with the use of dacron in the older manuals was they recommended a tuft or wad of dacron but didn't fully state the importance of it touching on both ends.
a 1 or 1.5 gr tuft of dacron will replace about that much powder weight so you have to work the loads up with it from the beginning.

[Paul B]

"you don't need a filler with unique it ain't position sensitive."

About 99 percent of he time I would agree with you. Hoever, one of my pet loads with Unique uses only 5.0 gr. and a 115 gr. bullet. It's a gallery load and is great for plinking and small game. I use it in the 30-30, .308 Win. and 30-06 and after some bench work found that a one-quarter square of toilet paper gave more consistant velocity and better accuracy.
I don't fill the entire case with filler and haven't seen the need. As I get 1.5 MOA at 200 yards and 2.5 MOA at 300 yards from my M70 in .308 Win., I figure I'm doing something right. Bullet is the Lyman #311291.
Paul B.

[gofst62]

Thanks for the great advice. Some of the local guys have also suggested reduced loads of some of the faster rifle powders such as Varget. I have bullets coming from Dave at Montana Bullet works so should be fun to play with!! THX Again.
Dan

[runfiverun]

ya in a situation like that where unique is on the slow end for the powder amount it would benefit from the filler/powder positioner.
most gallery/cat sneeze type loads are with a faster powder like red-dot.

Dan have fun.