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Thread: The Beginning of a Come Back of a Reloader, Bullet Swager and Caster

  1. #21

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    Now I'm totally confused, versifier...

    I thought you were advising against using cast rifle boolits for hunting whitetail, unless a nice large meplat was on the nose of the slug...

    Now you seem to be in total favor of them. There again, I hasten to add, with the proper meplat on the bullet nose... etc...

    I just re-read what you wrote about the boiler room earlier, and now I understand what you're saying, somewhat... You're advocating good shot placement, first, foremost, and always. To wound an animal, is just horse hockey...
    Jim Fleming

    I will bleed, Red, White & Blue forever.

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  2. #22
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    No, you've got the right idea.

    What I was trying to get across is that there is a world of difference between the performance of cast and jacketed bullets, and what works well for one will not necessarily work well for the other. Cast are best for short range hunting due to much lower velocities, and shot placement is much more critical than with jacketed because you give up the advantage of hydrostatic shock. They don't punch through large bones well in medium bores, so boiler room shots are advisable to insure reliable kills. The boiler room is an easy pieplate sized target and the odds are much better to hit it for a clean kill. The spine is a much smaller target, more like a tennis ball.

    Suppose you are an inch or two off on that spine shot. When you put a jacketed bullet near the upper spine of a deer, you will often stun it because of the hydrostatic shock and then you can easily finish it with a quick followup. If you put a cast bullet into the same spot, your followup would be on a running deer, not an easy shot under most hunting conditions, and in heavy brush, you would likely lose the animal. Only the coyotes would benefit. If the cast bullet hit a curved surface of a vertabra, it is more likely to simply deflect than it is to shatter the bone as it would if it hit straight on. Same for a head shot - more curved surfaces to deflect. Obviously, the shorter the range and the more solid the rest, the better the odds on such shots if you choose to attempt them.

    Shooting from offhand with a cast bullet, I would rather aim for the pieplate than the tennis ball in case of Murphy's Law and leave myself a little more room for error and better odds for a deer in the freezer that I don't have to track into the next county. I think twice about a lot of shots that I would not hesitate to try with a jacketed bullet, and I pass on them more often than not, just like I would when hunting with a bow, a muzzle loader, or a handgun. I try to be aware of the limitations of each method, and especially my own. Every thing I can do to make the odds a little better, i.e. meplat, proper hardness, careful placement, rest when available, etc., gives my confidence a boost.
    Last edited by versifier; 09-07-2009 at 03:27 PM.
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  3. #23
    runfiverun runfiverun's Avatar
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    i'll take two larger holes anyday over an expanding smaller boolit.
    there are some boolits that will punch through bone but they probably won't be too effective through the ribs.
    it's a balance, but i enjoy messing with cast enough to do the tests and have enough confidence in my set up, that i know which shots i'll take and which to pass.
    i do the same with my jacketed also though, i shoot the 7x57 and it does have it's limits
    mostly distance,but i give that up to gain bullet performance at a lower velocity.
    so when i do hit an animal it's over right now right there and i don't have to get lost on my way to find it.
    i use the same things in my cast hunting , the range is cut in half but the results are the same.

  4. #24

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    Now, runfiverun & versifier, I think I've gotten the idea...

    If I use 240 gr. Keith style SWC, Lyman number 429421, out of my Contender, over top of a souped up, (aka HOT, aka overloaded round) I'd stand a better chance, than with a .308 Rifle cast Boolit. I'll just have to make sure that I limit my shooting to practical ranges... Not a problem...

    I accept that, if I can get set up in time, I want to use that exact combination to hunt Fall Turkey Season up here in the Wilds of PA.

    It didn't occur to me that using that exact combination would be preferable to Whitetail hunting than a .308 Cast Rifle Boolit... I'd assumed (nasty word!) that because the rifle is so much more powerful than the hand gun cartridge it would be the ticket... Not realizing the hard cast bullet would have the same effect as an arrow, deadly to be sure, but not necessarily instantaneous, like a copper jacketed bullet, properly placed, "should" be...
    Jim Fleming

    I will bleed, Red, White & Blue forever.

    USAFR (Retired)
    NRA Life Member
    VFW Life Member

  5. #25
    runfiverun runfiverun's Avatar
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    over a regular load of 2400,800-x or unique is sufficient.
    i use the 2400 and 800-x as my loads over the 429 boolit made from ww's and pure mixed with some tin in my lever guns and handguns.
    a 308 just won't make the holes as big no matter the expansion and expansion can stop the penetration.
    like i said there are ways then there are easier ways.

  6. #26

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    Understood...

    When I mentioned 'overloads' I was talking trash, just ignore my braggadocio... I agree that 2400 is good medicine for .44 Magnum Loads...


    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    over a regular load of 2400,800-x or unique is sufficient.
    i use the 2400 and 800-x as my loads over the 429 boolit made from ww's and pure mixed with some tin in my lever guns and handguns.
    a 308 just won't make the holes as big no matter the expansion and expansion can stop the penetration.
    like i said there are ways then there are easier ways.
    Jim Fleming

    I will bleed, Red, White & Blue forever.

    USAFR (Retired)
    NRA Life Member
    VFW Life Member

  7. #27
    runfiverun runfiverun's Avatar
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    no problem..
    jim there is a thread on this next door 44 man i believe started one of these.
    i have got him to rethink what he is doing with his handgun hunting.
    speed and alloy not high in either case is necessary, 18- 19 grs of 2400 and ww's with 25% pure and 1% tin is like half a lyman[5-5] alloy but sure works nicely.
    a magnum primer is used if you have unburned powder in the bbl.
    unique works nicely in the rifles but is too smokey for me in the revolvers.

  8. #28

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    would you mind posting me a link to the thread you're discussing...? Thanks in Advance...
    Jim Fleming

    I will bleed, Red, White & Blue forever.

    USAFR (Retired)
    NRA Life Member
    VFW Life Member

  9. #29
    runfiverun runfiverun's Avatar
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    jim:
    i'll be danged if i can find it.
    things move so fast over there, i will try a search for it.

  10. #30

    Thumbs up Update Time!

    Hello folks...

    I've been busy with designing this project and all that goes with every day living, but here goes:

    http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AU...1tcHRoZg&hl=en

    It goes without saying that I'd like to know what everyone thinks, but as I ask in the document, please let me know if you think I've missed something, something important, that I'll discover the hard way, as I'm building it...

    Thanks for your patience, and encouragement, Guys...
    Jim Fleming

    I will bleed, Red, White & Blue forever.

    USAFR (Retired)
    NRA Life Member
    VFW Life Member

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check        

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