moa

[casullman]

The verified average distance that a whitetail is taken (up here) is only 75 yds but there are plenty of fields and swamps that provide 200-600 yard shots Having said that Isn't it enough for a hunting round to group 1-1.25 moa or even 2moa? Should more be expected from today's guns, components and equipment?

[versifier]

Never overestimate many of today's hunters who think two rounds the day before deer season to check the zero constitutes "practice". Maybe you can expect more from today's equipment from a solid rest, but it's a tossup. While there are many accurate rifles coming out, there are also a lot coming off the assembly lines that can't hit anything without a trip to the gunsmith and several hundred dollars work or several trips back and forth to the factory to fix what QC should have caught before it wnet out the door the first time. I can't see many shelling out the price of several boxes of factory ammo to stay in practice, either. In the brass bucket at the range as deer season approaches I see empty cases usually in threes, though sometimes there is a half box or even a full one, but not often enough. The new short magnum in ultralight rifle craze is sure resulting in a great selection of used rifles. Am I cynical? Yes. I shoot more rounds in an average week that most members of our club shoot in several years (except for the reloaders). It's no longer as amusing as it once was to be handed a rifle that "just won't hit anything" and shoot a 4" group offhand at 100yds. People seem to think they can throw money into a rifle and scope and it's magically going to turn them into a shooter hanging on the living room wall above the TV.

I get GunTests every month and it totally amazes me how much people are paying for rifles I can outshoot with my muzzle loader. Two or three grand into rifle and scope and many can't do 2MOA in the hands of an experienced shooter. Some can, though, and in all truth many are reasonably priced if they aren't in the latest designer chamberings with fancy accessories to show off at the range. I have a lot more fun buying used guns and seeing what they will really do with good handloads and a bit of tinkering. People laugh when they see my .308 deer rifle. One wisea$$ even nicknamed it "The Old Canoe Paddle" (Read about it on the GunLoads Home Page). It's not about to win a beauty contest, but no critter I've aimed and fired it at has heard it speak more than once, no second shot has ever been necessary. (I have shot more than once just to be sure, but if in doubt I never pull the trigger in the first place. And yes, it means I have watched a lot of game walk away. So what?) The barrel is too thin for serious target work, but if you let it cool it will shoot .5MOA all day as long as I do my part. I won't shoot at anything much beyond 200yds as it wears peep sights and my eyes aren't what they used to be. My point is that it is at least as accurate as anything you can buy today for several grand, so why pay that kind of money? Yesterday's equipment is just as likely to be as good as today's if you're careful when buying it.

[casullman]

.5 moa bechrest or off hand?open sights? so far i have gotten 1.07moa (benchrest) from my savage 114 7mm stw 154 hornady IB 71.0gn imr 7828

[runfiverun]

i can shoot several of my hunting rifles with from 4 to 3x9 power scopes under an inch for 10 shots.
they will do this in either winter or summer.
and with either jacketed or cast boolits.
i also have a couple that are closer to 1-1/2" guns but all shots go in there even the first one.
it has gotta be hard to practice if every shot costs a buck or two though.
with accuracy like that is seems that you might wanna try it out on the longer shots to see how well it groups at the distance you plan on shooting.

[1Shirt]

A whole lot depends on the shooter etc.etc.etc. The guy who never shoots a round befor hunting season, is a woods hunter, carries a 94 Win, and never shoots over 100 yds offhand, will be satisfied with 3 MOA at 100. If he is a blind/stand shooter (that is one who shoots from a blind or stand) and or from a good rest, and is shooting to 2-3 hundred probably shoots quite a bit, and will not be satisfied with a rifle that will not shoot less than 1 1/2 MOA. Also, I have learned never to critize the guy who has one and one only rifle, that looks like it was run over by a pick up. A lot of these guys bring home venison every year, and a lot with new high priced, so called high quality just seem to enjoy being in the field, but tend to eat beef and chicken.
1Shirt

[versifier]

.5 moa bechrest or off hand?open sights? so far i have gotten 1.07moa (benchrest) from my savage 114 7mm stw 154 hornady IB 71.0gn imr 7828

From a solid rest, with peep sights. Offhand I can keep them all in 3" or less on a good day, 6" on a bad day. Twenty-five years ago I could keep them all in 1.5" with it and most every day was a good day. Sierra 150gr GK's and 3031 or 165gr GK's and 4064. I added a recoil pad to it after they tried to rebuild my back.

[1Shirt]

Versifier, 50 years ago, I was about the same accuracy as you were 25 years ago.
25 years ago, I was still in the running but not by any means what I was earlier.
My rifles have a tendancy to be Savages and Rugers, and I have never yet paid retail price for any of them. My Savages out of the box on the bench will usually run close to MOA, some of my Rugers will do the same. My milsurps are far better than me with issue sights, and if and when I get under 3 MOA with them I am happy. Offhand, I am usually satisfied with 50 yds, and 3-4" groups, of MOSoupCan or clay pidgen. Have added pads to a number of my rifles because I can, and because I have little to prove to myself or anyone else for that matter at my age.
Enjoy your threads. They are well thought out and common sense in my never to be humble opinion.
1Shirt!

[Tom W.]

I have ended up with a stable of single shot rifles, some are Rugers, one is an NEF, and the other is a Savage mod. 12. All are exceptionally accurate, which surprises me sometimes. All also shoot nothing but my handloads.
Believe it or not, my Encore pistol will shoot bugholes @ 25 yards, and really great groups @ 100, yet I missed a deer this past season that was walking about 25 feet from me. I hunt from a tower blind, and have plenty of time to set up.
I got two within 2 minutes of each other with my 30-06, and my last deer of the season was one shot @ 250 yards with my 7mm Rem mag. All with single shot firearms.

[garbear]

I don't own any any deer rifles that are commercially made. The last one I had was a m70 win in 300 short mag. I do regret selling it but that being said I own mostly surplus rifles. I shoot them a lot and I mean alot. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer at 200 yds with any of them. Right know I am inletting a stock for my k-31 incase I draw a deer tag this year. She will shoot 1 inch groupd at 100yds all day long. I have seen a lot of shooters buy the latest and greatest and hunt with it for 1 season then sell it the fallowing spring. EVeryone at one time or another chases the accrucy trying to get the smallest group. Even I have until I realized that I can get the job done with somthing that cost much less and put meat in the freezer. just my 2 cents worth.

[captaint]

Yes, shooting little groups with our hunting rifles and fooling with handloads is a lot of fun - it really is. Howerer, if you want to see how good YOU shoot, try a CMP high power or rimfire match. I used to think I was pretty decent --WRONG. But because it is not easy, that too is fun. I'm still working on me. All of my guns shoot better than I do!