Found good read on fillers
. http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...ller/index.asp
Here you go 454shooter the read was in a powder article.
Sounds like good stuff i will have to get some.
Toney [smilie=s:
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Found good read on fillers
. http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...ller/index.asp
Here you go 454shooter the read was in a powder article.
Sounds like good stuff i will have to get some.
Toney [smilie=s:
A BIG Hello to you ! :-D ,
Sent you mail.
Having problems.Might be on my side.'Puter would freeze up.
Tried sending you 2 replies.The one sent a short while ago, got through.
Did see the article. Interesting read.Will save it for reference.
Made a few 45-70's with a filler.Used smokeless.
One on GBO (GrayBeard Outdoors), told me don't use them.Might have to strip those down.
Well, been D/L'ing a lot on fillers,to use or not. [smilie=b:
With the 45-60-405 loads,made sure no air spaces (Black Powder).
Since having some FFg Goex,thought might as well use the kinda-sorta original
loading.
It seems like it's almost opening up a can of worms. :shock:
Will go over the article again. Need 8.5x11 paper for laser printer.
(old HP printer, but it does work !Nice buy for $10.00 a while back)
Thank you. And, another big thank you for the welcome !!
See you later.
An interesting article, for sure. I really like that web site. I see however, among other things they are still quoting that Lee, I guess it was, statistic about 1" larger group for every .001" of sizing.:roll:
After reading this article, see what light the folks at "Cast Boolits" can shed on the subject(s). The sizing issue, fillers, etc.
But over all, a very decent article, IMHO. And that opinion is worth every bit you spent to gain it.;-)
All, I'm troubled by some of the information in the article mentioned above. First, H/IMR 4198 does NOT need a filler in order to obtain optimum performance. Second, using 13 grains of it (That's a lot of filler!) is wasteful and possibly dangerous as well. It would be better to use a powder designed for high capacity cases, but low charge weights, e.g., [formerly] Accurate Arms 5744 or even milsurp WC 820 than to use so much filler. However, you must then be doubly vigilant about charging cases with such fast powders. An article in the "Fouling Shot" (Cast Bullet Assoc. publication) explicitly stated not to use them when loading density is less than 80% of case capacity. Moreover, poly- buffers tend to form a solid plug when compressed too heavily. Having said this, I must add that I DO use both poly- and cereal (powdered bran) fillers, but not indiscrimately (and not together!), not in all rifle cartridges, and certainly not in large amounts. Rather, their use is limited to mid-capacity cartridges (7.5 x 55mm, 7.62 x 54R, 7.62 x 63, 7.65 x 53, and 8 x 57mm), heavy cast bullets, very slow milsurp powders such as IMR 5010, LR magnum primers, and small amounts. How small? .3cc (8 x 57mm) to 1.0cc (7.62 x63mm aka .30-06). Why do I use them? To increase the burning efficiency of IMR 5010,which means significantly lower extreme spreads, lower standard deviations, less unburned powder in the fired cases (but not in the bore!), and theoretically, better accuracy.
What kind of gun are you using and what kind of filler? I use a Marlin 1895 and a Ruger #1. I use lighter boolits like the RCBS 300gn FNU flat nose no gas check, and a filler.Quote:
Originally Posted by 454shooter
For filler I use packing pop corn broken into a piece just wider then the mouth of the case and long enough to take up most of the space between the boolit and powder. I will charge the case, and roll the popcorn until it fits in the case and push it flush with the top of the case. then when you seat the boolit let the boolit push down the popcorn. DO NOT PUSH THE POPCORN DOWN ON THE POWDER UNLESS BOOLIT DOES IT!!! That could bulge the barrell, but if you follow my instuctiions you should have no problems, and if you do send me a p.m. and I will have dad help me help you. My Dad says he has been using it for over 15 years in lots of different cartridges with smokless powder. The main thing is never have air space between the filler and the base of the boolit. It works just like a shot gun wad. Think about it a shot gun wad is nothing more than a compressable filler. The packing pop corn is weightless and compressable.
DANIEL/BS JR.
:coffee:
Hi Bullshop Junior,
I am using a 45-70 NEF Handirifle.
My reasoning was this; if it was good in the late 1800's,it is good enough now.
I found some 100 % cotton disc shaped makeup removers.Cut them into 1/4.
But since being advised not to use them, I'll strip the rounds.
For now, will have to wait and see what goes on with my employer.This is because,if the plant(s) get shutdown,I can't buy anymore powder.At least the
smokeless type.And hopefully go to work for Atlas Pacific Engineering Company.Several of the Atlas guys do hunt.
Have plenty of IMR 4198, 2Fg Goex,2 Fg American Pioneer Powder.And Pyrodex Pellets.
Since I have a good supply of black,and the substitutes,will load up the way
it was back in the late 1800's.
Just have to hold off buying more powder.And find out what is in store for next year.
And thank you for you and your Dad to help out.I appreciate it.
It is plenty safe as long as there in no air space between the base of the boolit and the top of the wad, I would be extremely cautious or strip it. I got this info from my dad who has 30+ years experience in this sort of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 454shooter
DANIEL/BS JR.
:coffee:
P.S. We just got a NEF handy rifle in 30/30 with a full lenth manlicher stock!!
Hi Daniel,
I'll just go ahead and strip them down.I guarantee, that there's no space,
between the bullet and powder.Using IMR 4198.
Then re-build them in black powder.
It will only cost me time to do it.And for now, time I've got.
But, thank you and your Dad for your help.
I appreciate it.
As a side note,I did make the felt sheet in bees wax.Haven't cut the wads out yet.Mixed in some "Bore Butter". The white felt sure don't look white anymore.
So much to do after returning from Arizona.The list of what to do, isn't getting any shorter.Planned on putting casters on the bottom of a military ammo can.Yeah, the big one. Did do one a few weeks ago.With all that ammo inside, makes moving it easier.Think they are 20 MM ammo cans.2 used to be for my tools for the Dodge Ram Charger Prospector.Sure can't weigh down this Honda Passport.It weighs 1,100 lbs less than the Ram Charger. Don't need that many tools anyway.Sure miss the room I had with the Dodge.
So, had to down-size for better gas mileage.Then, the metric tools had to be bought.Sure didn't buy "cheapies".Bought quality to last a lot longer.
Been planning for quite a while,to get 2 replacement welding bottles (tanks).
People that borrowed it, didn't replace the bottles.That was about 5 years ago !
Will let you go.See ya.
Gentlemen:
The artical was a good read.
I thought I'd log in and say what I do for filler around here where the sole use of fillers is in the large blackpowder cases. Things like 40/65, 45/70 (and other similar 45s and for me the biggest of all, the 50/90SS.
I do not happen to think that the typical bottle-neck cases, useing cast bullets benifit enough from fillers to be of any consiquence.
None of the regular bench-rest competitors use filler in their winning loads; they simply build cases intended fo shooting CBs or they find a combination that does not require their use.
In short the method is to "Keep it Simple". Do not add another vairable to the already complex problem of achieving accuracy in shooting cast bullets.
In the big blackpowder cases its a different story; it is my view that the case volumn is far too great to shoot consitently with smokeless unless a filler is used.
The long, straight-walled cases lend themselves to filler use in that there is no bottle-neck to worry about. No possiblity that the filler could become "wedged" somehow in the tapered case necks. I like that.
The use of filler is just like the artical says: Use enough enert material to fill the excess space in the case plus just a little more for compression, holding the powder/filler column firmly in place and thus avoiding the possibility of powder and filler mixing!
In the big blackpowder cases I use regular old Hominy Grits as an inert cerial filler. These cost much less than the poly stuff the artical addresses and work in the exact same way.
Simply consider the added weight of the grits ( or corn meal, or cream-of-wheat ) in addition to to the bullet's weight and work up a good accurate load. Always use a 0.050 card wad under all plain-base bullets to prevent the hard granuals of filler from impacting the soft plain base bullet bases. Such dents will make each base unique as the bullet exits the barrel, thus affecting accuracy. The card wad protects the bullet base and falls off within 10 feet of the firing line.
When I load inert filler into my cases I simply use two powder measures. One for powder, the other for filler. It is easy and fast. Just dump the powder, dump the filler, push the 0.050 card wad into the flared case mouth and seat the bullet. You're done with very little lost motion at all.
Good morning,
Forrest
Welcome to the guide Forrest. Glad to hear from you.