Favourite 9MM Loads

I seem to be on a mission but thought a thread in this vain may generate some interesting recipes as well.

I shoot lead truncated 125 gr boolits out of my nines. My go to load for playing the games is:

4.7 gr Unique - load makes IDPA PF , is accurate in all of my guns and economical. Out of a 5" barrel I get an avg. vel. of 1,150 fps

4.1 gr Win 231 is another accurate, economical load that pushes the same boolit out at an avg of 1,100 fps.

No leading has occurred in any of my guns using soft/hard lubes.

Have you tryed the power pistol in your 9, It's fast! but has a lot of blast

Not yet, do you have some loads to recommend? I am trying to wean off Unique and use it for my .45LC. win 231 has some possibilities and I have to develop some more loads in that powder.

Stay Safe

Bob

125gr fmj 6.6gr power pistol 1,235fps 34,000psi

My favorate load for the nine very fast, faster than the published vol.

I'm kinda partial to Unique. 5.5gr with 125 LRN and 3.9gr with 147 LFN.
I just inherited an old tc mold, not sure yet what weights it will throw in different alloys. I won't cast when it's below 20deg in my unheated shop. They will have to wait for testing until the target boards at the range reappear from the snow banks in the spring....

Do you get much leading using 5.5 gr of Unique? as soon as I crossed 5 gr I experienced quite a bit of leading with hard cast boolits 124 gr Truncated with water quenched wheelweights for alloy.

Stay Safe

Bob

None to speak of, but I would not be surprised if the results with this particular pistol were not typical. In a later test, the same load gagged up a Ruger P85 after only two mags and had to be thoroughly cleaned after the "groups" opened up to more than 24". (We just shot the rest of them up in the pistol that preferred them.) In light of that, I would tend to think maybe your results are more in line with what to expect, but two guns does not a comprehensive test make. Both shoot FMJ's to the same acceptable accuracy, not that that proves anything with respect to cast loads. There are lots of other variables that might explain it.

Here's the particulars: The bullets were commercial cast NEB's, I am unsure of the alloy and the lube was dark blue. I suspect it is softer than the WDWW alloy you are using, but may be sized a little larger - I didn't save any samples to measure. Are you sizing at .356 or .358? That could make a big difference on how much they lead up, too, even more than the hardness, but you know that already. We shot 500 of them through an older S&W m59 one afternoon without any cleaning, no function problems, and no adverse effect on accuracy - they stayed in a 4" circle at 25yds. We just kept changing the core of the target and letting the pistol cool after each mag. There were maybe a dozen fliers, but all were called as fired, so they were no fault of gun or load.

To be fair, the pistol was well broken in with many thousands of FMJ's (My friend had a bucket full of more than 6000 empty cases when we started shooting together and I started loading for it. As he put it, "S**t, those are just the ones I could find.") It was used but had been well cared for when he bought it. I think it's well "seasoned" and the pores and machining marks are all filled in and/or smoothed over by now. Looking in the barrel, there is no visible pitting nor any sign of throat erosion. It feeds everything he has put through it, RN, HP, SWC, TC, which, considering how finicky some of those early m59's were is really saying something, (my brother and I had one we called "Old Unprintable"). We're really just beginning to explore using it for cast, but it seems to be taking to them like a fish to water. Every so often you just happen upon a really good one, whether the gods smile upon you or by pure dumb luck is anybody's guess. He's not interested in selling it....

My 9MM guns are as follows:

CZ 85 4.7" barrel
Hi-Power Mke 1 & 111
Norinco 1911 Design 5"
STI Trojan 1911 Design 5"

Because I shoot them all a lot I just size to .356. The day I was shooting the 5gr. Unique after about 50 rounds I had boolits key holing at 10 yards. Barrel was leaded up pretty good in the STI.

Since then I have set 4.7 gr to be my max with WDWW boolits. I also have tried Commercial LRN at 5 gr and got similar results.

For me my loads at 4.7 gr Unique under the truncated 125 gr boolit is as accurate as I can shoot. From a pistol rest at 15 yards my rounds are inside 1". I don't test beyond that range mainly because either I am not steady enough or just plain can't see that fine to really judge what the rounds are really doing. AT 25 yards I can keep them all in an 8" circle two handed firing rather quickly which is good enough for IDPA, paper bad guys and real bad guys if ever the need arose.

Interestingly. bear in mind these loads are done on a Dillon 550 and I only test a couple of loads before loading up a binch and we know Unique does not drop real consistantly, an averge velocity of 70 rounds using 4.7 gr Unique came in at 1,138 fps. NOw I have only chronoed a group of 10 rounds using 5 gr of Unique but average was 1158 only 20 fps faster. Alloys were the same WW water quenched with hard lube. For that day the difference was enough to lead up my gun.

Now 5 gr might well be ok in a couple of the guns listed above and just a killer in the STI. My problem is as stated because I shoot them all it just makes sense for me to cut back my load which is accurate in all the guns and not worry about the leading. Probably not the best solution but it works for me.

Stay Safe

Bob

Not sure what is worse my tipying or my speilling!

This I got from a CB thread in November. This is about shooting undersized cast bullets: Too hard an alloy caused more lead fouling at the breech end due to poor obturation and gas-cutting of the driving bands - it would not have an immediate effect on the accuracy, not until it really started to build up. Too soft an alloy caused lead fouling near the muzzle due to radial shear (stripping) as the bullet continued to accelerate in the barrel - this would be obvious immediately by erratic POI and/or keyholing (especially with longer rifle bullets or full wadcutters).
This is what occurs to me: (I'm going through this logically, typing so I can see it laid out point by point, and I don't mean it to sound like a lecture, just thinking out loud.)
Even if the barrel is too short to tell if there's more at one end or the other, a simple test should be able to clearly show if size is the likely cause. (I suspect the poor obturation and gas-cutting in your case.) To test it all you have to do is cast some from ACWW and some from pure lead and shoot both loads and your WDWW ones as the control with the 5gr charge where the problem appeared. (I'd line up the targets, choose one pistol for the testing, and with your control load shoot a mag full at each target until you notice the groups open up. It should happen pretty quick with the control load, too, just like before, right? Then clean it really well. Next do the same with the second load and then with the third load. Number the targets!) If the fouling lessens progressively with softer bullets, you'll shoot more targets with each softer load before you have to stop. Then you can be sure it's because they're a bit small. 9mm jacketed bullets are normally sized at .356 and all cast bullets generally work better when sized .002 larger than the groove diameter (.310 for a .30 cal with a grv. diam. of .308). So, I'd be trying sizing them at .358. Then that will cut the leading by attacking the cause instead of alleviating a symptom (changing hardness), and might let you shoot those harder bullets a few hundred fps faster before you'd start to have any leading problems. Gas checks would help, too, but those designs are generally for heavier (158-200gr) .357 bullets and most will tell you there are easier ways with a 9mm. I don't know what kind of sizer you use, but a Lee push-through costs about $12US, and if it doesn't do the trick for the 9's, it will work with .38/.357's, or you could sell it on the CB Swapping & Selling section.
I load on a single stage and throw charges with a Uniflow powder measure. I don't have problems with Unique metering consistantly (randomly checked charges - every 15 or 20 - with the small cavity rotor don'y vary by more than .1gr), but I do use a tappity-tap routine that I learned long ago makes using IMR powders easier, I just do it automatically after 30 years of using it, no matter which powder I'm measuring. I'm not sure if that could be a problem with your Dillon. How inconsistant, like, say .05gr, or like .5gr? The first is within the acceptable error for the measures and scales, the second indicative of a possible serious problem.

Informative reply and I appreciate your input. I will test this out come spring when it is easier to clean up after each run.

Not at all convinced that initial leading can be attributed to boolit diameter solely. I eliminated the problem in my .45acp 1911's (four different guns) simply by going to a hard lube over soft. alloy, sizing and powder charge remained constant.

The STI that leaded up pretty much had lead the length of the barrel. This surprised me in that I had not experienced any form of leading in any of my guns prior to this one instance. My manuals indicate I would gain about 20 - 30 fps by going up 3/10th of a grain (4.7 - 5) so I may just stay in my comfort zone. The load works, makes IDPA power factor and is easy on my guns and doesn't lead of the barrels. The top loads are no problem with my two 1911's but the Hi-Power and CZ are not as strong as the 1911 design.

We will see in the spring.

Stay Safe

Bob

Maybe the STI just has a really rough bore. Do you have access to a bore scope? If so, bring another gun for comparison as even a custom match barrel looks pretty bad at very high magnification without something to compare it to! Could it be a candidate for a bore lapping/polishing experiment?

Ummm. Now you have me thinking. I will load up 50 and let them off in my Norinco 1911 9MM. Let me try this over the next day or two and see what happens. The Norinco barrel is chrome lined and smoother than a baby's bottom.

Stay Safe

Bob--Do you have any Herco?? As I mentioned in my E mail to you 5.2 under a 121 lee tc does 1200fps out of my Hipower and little to no leading either air cooled or water dropped. Accuracy is excellent in the neighborhood of 2"@25yds. I pushed it up to 6 grs.(allaiant max) got 1300+ but accuracy suffered and leading began. It will meter thru your Dillon about the same as Unique as it is a little "fluffyier" than Unique. If you look at Allaiant's data you will see the pressure/velocity ratio for Herco is lower than Unique and this may help, I don't know.
I just got into this "9" thing about a year or so ago. Since I started that I've shot at least 10k rds trying all kinds of combo's, 99% of them cast. Powders tried have been Bullseye,231,540,571,wap,wsf,Blue dot,Herco, and Longshot. Bullets have been Lee 121tc, rcbs 124(same as Lee), Lee 153rn, Lyman 147 and a commercial cast by Kead 147 grainer.
The most accurate powder has been Hogdon Longshot at 5.7 with the Lee 121 or rcbs 124. Or 4.6 grs and either the Kead 147 or Lee 153 rn. All of these combo's will shoot under 2"@25 yds out of my Hipower. The 121 is running about 1170 approx and the 153/147 about 1000fps.
The 147Kead and 153 Lee also do pretty good with Blue Dot,540,571and WSF. The Wsf load at 4.0 is a very soft load (about 950fps) and would be great as a competition loads as far as recoil control. I have had no luck at all with the Lyman 147 gr. bullet, out of my gun with either the factory bbl. or aftermarket bbl. accuracy sucks.
The 121/124's do well with 3.8 Bullseye(1050) 6.5 Blue Dot(1154) and 5.2 Herc(1208). I did'nt have much luck with 231.
I've pretty much settled on 5.7 Longshot for the 121's and 4.6 Longshot for the 153/147's. Velocities ar respectable for their weights and I can't see where a service pistol like my Hipower is going to get any more accurate. That's my story and I'm stickin to it. Nick

Hi Nick

No Herco yet. My problem up here is I am limited in my powder choice. Next time I had south I intend to cross the line and pick up some Herco and HS6 to try out. Did yo get my spreadsheet?

I think 124/125 gr boolits do best in the 9MM. Read somewhere the rate of twist in the 9's stabilizes that weight of boolit best. Will try your loads when I get some of the powders.

My only limitation to shooting 25 groups is my inept shooting ability. Thought the gun has something to do with it because my K 38 shoots some scary groups from a resat and not even to bad two handed. I have some longshot on hand that I use for my .45-08 loads so may try your Longshot load.

There is a company back east that sells powder at a discount so may try ordering from them once I find out what the shipping costs will be. Prices are closer to US prices. They also sell some surpkus powders, one of which is a close sustitute for Herco if memory serves me correct.

PM me your phone # and I'll give you a call. My phone plan is free in NA 24-7

Stay Safe

115 grain HP Remington bullets with 7.0 grains of Win540/HS-6 :)

I've got a Little Dandy rotor I Dremeled-out and polished up shiny as anything inside, that dumps 7.0 of HS-6 very consistantly (also dumps 5.1 grains of Win231 which is another stout load for 115 grain bullets in the 9mm)

Anyway the slow Win540/HS-6 stuff works the action real nice on my old Beretta 92 (frame safety).

Was 6.3 grains of Unique but it just doesn't meter very good and gunks up the gun something awful. I'll save the Unique for 12 gauge. :)

Alvin in AZ
ps- I'm about to run out of favorite loads! ;)

Well this summer has seen several changes to my casting of 9MM bullets.

I have swtiched to Felix lube for all my lubing, and I now size my 9MM bullets to .357.

Effect has been to improve accuracy, eliminate leading and tumbling in all my guns. The STI is scary accurate with 4 gr Unique under 125 gr truncated bullet. LOad makes power factor for IPSC minor and IDPA which is what I use it for.

Ah som much to learn and so little time left....well I hope longer than thtat implies!

Take Care Wh

Bob