lets kick this puppy off!!!

Ok, so here's the deal....

I'm a new C&R holder and though I have read these (as in gun/reloading sites on the web) forums for years, my hands-on experience is limited to Lee Loaders.

I like the Lee for my .44 spl/mag with store bought bullets and the 30-06 likewise, but these last two weeks have forced me to gear up all at once.

You see, I had plans for that C&R and put both feet in, as my budget got right.

Yugo SKS, Yugo 48, m/n 91/30, m/n 38, Swiss k31 and oh yea, a really nice, if unplanned for, FN Belgium m35 Mauser in 7.65.

Every one of these are going to need feeding and so I went with Lee dies, press(s), case prep and powder measure/dippers as starting tools.

I also have an RCBS 505 and Redding trickle and know how to use them :wink:

For a melting set up, a Wal-Mart hot plate and an RCBS iron pot with dipper. I also have a small iron smelting pot with a rounded bottom and will keep using that as well.

For wws' a stainless kitchen pot, unhandled and decommissioned years ago!

I ordered up the RCBS .44-250k two holer I’ve lusted for these last few years and will never, ever buy another .44 cast bullet again.

Yea me!

From the Lee line 324-175-1r, 312-185-1r and the 312-155-1r.

I think these will cover everything, for now, but if not I'd sure like to hear back. I’ve heard the opinion that the Lee .30 caliber bullets do not do well in the 30-06.

Truth or Fiction?

I would like to find a good, light cast bullet for a 25-06 Remington but otherwise, I think I'm set-up for my first attempts at casting/reloading for these rifles.

There are, of course, other odds-and-ends, like Marvelux, calipers and micrometer (Frankford and Hornady) mica and, oh yea, a RCBS Berdan decapper.

I really don't know how much use that last item will get, but I do pick up brass at the range and if I can, I will reload the two-hole monsters. :)

I ordered some 7.5 Swiss (GP-11) from Aim and wonder out-loud if I will be able to reload this stuff?

What Berdan primer wills I need for the stuff and where can I find more info on using/buying these primers? Any info links?
I did get new brass for most, but for the 7.65 Belgium, I ordered a couple of boxes of Graffs' Hornady 7.65 loads. The 7.62x54r gets forty bright, new rounds of Winchester and I hope to get several reloads from that brass.

Do any of you know about resizing 30-06 brass to 7.65 Belgium, using the same method as for the Win. 284 brass to 7.5 Swiss?

Can the Lee die handle that chore, or should I call for a RCBS Resizing Die?

For reference books, the Lee book and Lyman’s' 48th, Lyman’s' cast handbook and Loadbooks I have on hand. I also have a small number of powder suppliers’ data booklets and a 5th edition of “The ABC’s of Reloading”.

How am I doing so far?

I did not order any sizing dies, as I want to slug the barrels first, and I really do not have the budget for a 'hard' lube/sizer. I will go for the Lee sizer kits, but if I wanted to use these bullets without sizing, how do I attach the gas checks?

Do I need to use gas checks all the time with these rifles/loads? What are the limits of velocity with these cast bullets/rifles?

I am hoping to use the Lee liquid Alox for now and I have looked at the homemade soft lube on 'Cast Boolits' with interest.

Lee universal dies for opening up case mouths and decapping and a Lee hand priming tool, with shell holders.

Will this priming tool handle Berdan cups?

I've hoped to stick to the Alliant Powder line, so I can keep things simple to start out with, though I am given to understand that the Lee book uses Hodgdon data so I cannot say that is a hard, fast rule.

Any thoughts?

I haven’t decided if I can afford a ‘crony’ yet, but Midway sent me an email/flyer today advertising the F1/F1 Master on sale at 'dealer' rates.

Can I work out accurate modern loads without the use of one of these in your opinion?

If so, what methods should I employ?

Even though I only use iron sights and am not setting out to be a sub-moa benchrest or competition shooter, I really want to hear any suggestions you might have on any aspect of this reloading hobby and the guns, tools and toys involved. I love to shoot and as has been said often been said elsewhere “only accurate rifles are interesting “so I want to do what I can to get the best from my guns.

Cheers,
Eli

eli: I'm guessing you would have generated several responses if you had posted this on the "Cast boolits" protion of this site.. Try going there and referring to this post,rather than re-doing the whole thing.. good luck, onceabull

Thanks Onceabull.

I kind of figured that it would be slow going, but this forum is new and I will give it a few more days. :coffee:

After that, I'll see if I can get a post up on CB's and see what happens.

Cheers,
Eli

Wow what a list hehe.

First thing that comes to mind is the 7.5 swiss, you can get boxer norma brass for it, I would not mess with the berdan unless you HAVE to, the primers from what I have seen cost a LOT more than boxer. Old western scrounger sells berdan primers

I'm an opiniated cuss but I'd leave the cap on the marvelux forever, the stuff makes everything rust like mad. I suppose you could use it for smelting in bulk outside.

You have the chance right now to start off right, buy power 8lbs at a time, and primers 5k at a time at least, Grafs still pays the hazmat for you if you buy 32 lbs. I like Hogden Extreme powders because they are not temp sensitive, but I have not yet used them for cast boolits. Same deal on the gaschecks, get in on a group buy and buy 5k each of 30 and 8mm......enjoy the savings right off the bat. Surplus powders are a great bargian too and I would sure explore them if I were you.

some folks Veral Smith included say that when using gas check boolits without gas checks that grex shotshell buffer as a filler helps greatly.

there is a start :-)

Bill

Thanks for the feedback Bill.

You know...I may just keep the Marvelux for bulk smelts only. I have beeswax on hand and just the other night tried some in a small melt. It did not smoke half as bad as I thought it would. The idea of unnecessarily adding to equipment problems (rust) is a real put off and I'm just cheap enough to want my gear to last forever.

Speaking of cheap, I've noticed that automotive and household cleaners, solvents, etc are being used by shooters/reloaders and C&R holders for several different things.

Do you have any favorites for mold or rifle cleaning, etc?

What sort of savings on group buys of gas checks and other items are the norm?

What sort of rule of thumb should be used, when using buffers/fillers in metallic cases, to figure out pressures?

Cheers,
Eli

Myself for cleaning I just use plain old Hoppes #9 or shooters choice/kroil mixed 50-50, and hoppes BR-9 for removing copper, I do not go thru more than a medium sized bottle in 2-3 years. I will give Eds Red a try if I get round to making some.

The fillers it would best if you ask over on cast boolits from the guys using them all the time.

I know on powder that I see for example Clays is 111.00 for 8 lbs from Graf's, I bought what I thought was a 1lb can to try the powder, turns out it is 14 oz (thats all that will fit) and it cost 18.00 retail so that equates out to 111.00/164.00 or a 33% savings. From what I recall on the gas checks they saved 50% or more.

If you find the gun store that sells componants to trap shooters you will see some good buys on powders those guys use, there is one near here that sells Clays and other shotgun/pistol/rifle powders for 13.00 a lb.

It is NICE however to just HAVE componants on hand, the price on them never really goes down, and they will keep for a lifetime if stored cool and dry. Some of the surplus powders will run out and then they will no longer be avail.

Bill

Graf's recently imported a lot of Russian berdan primers, size .217. The price was right in line with boxer primers; they may still have some in stock. If not, maybe we can find a way for you to get a few from me; I got 5,000 when they came in. Graf's also gives you a dealer discount if you have a C&R FFL.

Bill, what surplus powders would you suggest I look at first?

As to Ed's Red, I downloaded the mixing directions a few days ago and will likely use this to clean these new rifles. I also like the Hoppes #9 by-the-way, but I think the Red stuff will be my best bet on these long guns.

Dan, I am also in NC, (Charlotte). Thanks for the offer to share your stock of Berdan primers. If I can't find the right ones elsewhere, I may just take you up on your offer. It may be that I can join one of the local gun clubs/ranges and order up some primers and powder through them.

What are you using your Berdans to reload?

Have you tried the Swiss GP-11 brass yet?


Cheers,
Eli :-)

Dan, One additional purchase to consider (You can save $$ by not purchasing a berdan decapper!) is a lead/casting thermometer, which will insure more uniform temps. + help you monitor your stove/furnace settings. As for some of the other questions:

GP-11 is berdan primed. It would be easier to purchase .284Win. brass and reform/resize it to 7.5 x 55mm.

You can buy a form die for .30-06 -> 7.65 x 53mm, but unless you get one at a bargain price, it can be expensive. Try this: First, cut the necks off .30-06 brass with a hack saw, but cut them no shorter than say 55-56mm. De-burr thoroughly and lube the outside as per FL sizing. With a 7.65 x 53mm FL die barely screwed into your press, and a trimmed pc. of '06 brass in your shellholder, raise the ram and turn the FL die in until you feel it contact the brass. Continue to screw it in ~1/2 turn at a time and raise the ram. Do this until the die, wi. brass inside, makes firm contact with the shellholder. Trim to 53mm and anneal. Btw, don't lube the top 3/8" of the trimmed shell else you'll get lube dents or worse on the as-yet-to-be-formed necks.

Lee molds are excellent products, but their dimensions, at least for .30cal. bore-riding designs (e.g., C309-180R), may be incorrect for your .30-06. They are for mine. Their .30cal. "wadcutter" or "soupcan" mold & CB casts large enough so that you can size it to fit (Slug your bore first.) and is surprisingly accurate. Btw, the bore-riding nose on the .30cal. Lee mold is .299"-.300" when it should be at least .301" (so-so) or .302" (better).

If you have a Lyman or RCBS lube-sizer (Look for a used #450 or RCBS 'Lub-a-Matic" on e-Bay.), you can purchase a gas-check seater from Lyman ($8.25) which will fit either machine. Lyman & RCBS sizing dies & nose punches fit either machine/are interchangeable.

Gas-check bullet designs shoot best with GC's attached unless you hold velocity to <1,500fps. On the other hand, a plain-base rifle CB can be driven at least that fast with excellent results if it fits the rifle throat and carries enough lube. The latter must be of high quality too, e.g., "Felix Lube," NRA-formula alox & beeswax, Lyman "SuperMoly," etc.

Marvelux: It is hygroscopic and that is a major PITA, because it forms hard lumps (like granulated sugar does). It's Marvelux's affinity for water that can cause rust rather than its composition per se. However, if you must cast indoors, it is odorless, smokeless and VERY effective. If you aren't casting indoors, ordinary candle wax works well too.

Hope this helps, ...Maven

Sorry, I should have addressed my reply to Eli.

Hi Maven.

I already have the RCBS decapping tool, so I'm going to use it on those GP-11 cases (et al). I would like a link if anyone has one, to a spec sheet for those cartridges. Just what is the correct nomenclature for those primers?

You are right on target about the thermometer. I read the thread that EDG started on CB and have put a digital meter with thermometer on my list. This works out nicely because I really messed up my small multimeter a few weeks ago. :)

I will most likely stick to Lee sizing dies/kits for now. The traditional lube/sizer is just a bit much for the budget now and I like that the Lee kits come with liquid alox, etc.

I will be slugging my bores some time in the next week or so.

I had hoped to copycat (for the 30-06 to 7.65 Belgium) the method used for forming .284 Win. brass to 7.5 Swiss, using the Lee 7.5 Swiss die. I have the dies and trimmers and thought that might be the most direct method to use.

By-the-way, I did get 50 pieces of .284 Win. for reforming to 7.5 Swiss, but I also hate the idea of tossing that GP-11 stuff if I can use it too!

Cheers,
Eli

Eli, It occurred to me this AM to tell you that the .30cal. Lee bullet molds work rather well in the K-31 Swiss. I.e., the bore-riding nose is just about perfect for those short-throated rifles. Size them to .309", add 22gr. AA 5744 or H/IMR 4198 and you're in business!

Thanks Maven, Those rifles arrived today and I can not wait to clean them up and work out some loads.

That GP-11 sure is some beautiful ammo. I was showing my wife a round of Swiss stuff 1970s mfg. compared to some new Winchester rifle cartages and what a difference. The Swiss is perfect and the Winchester, somewhat tarnished, somehow seems....well shoddy. I see that the primers are crimped in and hope not to have too much trouble depriming them with the RCBS tool.

Have you (or anyone) any ideas about Lee dies for 38/357 (wadcutter) and .270?

I made a deal for ww with the owner of a fairly large tire shop and he would like to have a few cast bullets for himself and his son. I think he just liked the idea of getting something in exchange for his effort. I don't think these fine gentlemen reload as of yet, but who knows, the bug just might bit them too!

Thing is, I don't want put a lot of money into dies I may end up using on a few times, therefore Lee :) .

Cheers,
Eli

Eli, Did you mean Lee molds or Lee dies? If the former, their button-nosed wadcutter was very accurate, but I had severe problems with mold fill-out and ended up tossing it, much to my regret. Sorry, but I've no experience with the .270Win.

Marven, a slip of the keys, I meant the mold.

Cheers,
Eli

Eli

I have but one piece of advice given the complexity of what you're trying. Take it one or two rifles/calibers at a time and keep good records. You are gonna need the records to know what worked or didn't, cause there's no way you will remember unless you have an photographic memory. Take your time, master one thing at a time, and have fun shooting.

Thanks Wayne, I will likely be loading for the K31 and the 8mm Mauser first off. Depending on what the Belgium Mauser does with factory stuff, I will also load for that caliber.

Because I do not have a crony yet, I will keep things on the light side, believe me I don't think it's funny to blow up guns and show off scars. If I want maxium 'bang', I've got a .44 that makes A Lot of noise with the factory stuff.

I will be keeping these surplus reloads down also because I will using cast bullets, in the main.

Record keeping is a must.

Cheers,
Eli :smile:

Eli; until last year all my 7.65 mauser brass was formed from 30-06,280,270 and even 35 whelen It just takes one trip thru the FL sizer die and trim to length, none of mine were ever to thick in the necks but you had better check-especially if you form them from whelen brass. My routine was to form first, then cut off with a tubing cutter, chamfer and trim- chamfer again. Lube the cases good, inside neck too- I've got Lyman and Hornady dies, the hornady form cases easier. You will have less failures if you use new brass, but I used a lot of used brass, just anneal it first(shoulder area on unformed cases) Now I just buy it from Graf & sons- 25.00 per hundred.
Scooter

Thanks swheeler, I called Graf yesterday and they do have the 7.65 brass in stock. I had thought to form some from 30-06 and have 50 new pieces of R-P in waiting. I will be using the Lee Dies, if I go ahead.

I wonder which will give better service, the Graf stuff or reformed 30-06? I have read elsewhere that the Graf brass, in general, (particularly the 7.5 Swiss) has some problems, though the exact nature remains vague to me.

Which do you feel give better service/life, the Graff or reformed (new) 30-06?

Have you any favorite cast loads?

By-the-way, which 7.65 Mauser do you shoot and how do you feel it stacks up against other military Mauser calibers?


Cheers,
Eli

Eli: just lube your 06 case good(inside neck too) run thru FL7.65 sizer, you now have a 7.65 mauser case with way too long neck. I just cut them off with a tubing cutter,trim in trimmer, chamfer, and load. For about 35.00 you can get a file trim die, then you could cut them off with a fine tooth hacksaw, speed things up a little. I formed them this way since 1980, then last fall I bought some of the Graf offered stuff!
Scooter

GLM: This is giving me an INVALID THREAD, now I retype and post again and first post is there?

Eli: as you can probably tell I'm having problems posting some times, type something out and submit, doesn't show up, then later, there it is? Oh well, here's data to start- This is all for E series Lowe M1891 -1893 manu(Have had 1909DWM, And 1891 DWM)
cast Lee C312-185-1R(.313 sizer)
19.0 gr IMR sr 4759=1605 accurate
36.0 gr IMR 7383=1705-1 poly wad
47.0 gr Olin WC860=1659
11.0 gr Alliant Red Dot=1369
Jacketed
150 Hornady
43.0 gr Imr 4895(surplus)=2413
40.0 gr Olin WC846=2312
150 Speer SP
49.0 gr WC852(slow lot)=2205
50.6gr WC860=1812 accurate
It was "bubba'ED when I got it, 20" barrel(note velocities)
Scooter

Thanks swheeler, is that Lee cast bullet wearing a check or is it bare?

About how large are you cutting that poly wad? I have some Harbor Freight round punch cutters and had thought to use those, with a lead bed, to cut out some wads.

As to trimming, I am using a Lee case length trimmer and a power screwdriver.

Tell me, do you know of a method to mark formed cases so they can not be confused with standard rounds or other calibers, formed from the same mother-brass?

Cheers, :-)
Eli

Eli; it is gas check and ran thru .313 sizer. I cut the WAlly World poly into about 1/2 sguares and push it in with a wood dowel. I've never marked any of my formed cases as to caliber.
Scooter