What type of powder to use?

Hi everybody. I have had a dillon RL550 press for about 15 years. I have made tens of thousands of rounds with good results 99% of the time. However I still feel like I'm guessing when it comes to powder type. Can anybody suggest a good book on the subject? I've serched Amazon and none of the titles suggest what I'm looking for. Let me be more specific. I load 9 mm, .40 S&W, and 45 ACP using the same powder for all three. I've been told this isn't wise in spite of the fact that the tables have loads for all three using the same powders. I have some understanding of how slow and fast burning powder work. But it is still a little vague why one is appropriate for 45 ACP and a different one is more right for 9 MM. Either the name of a good book on the subject or any comments would be greatly appreciated. Chuck.

Hi Chuck

I like fast powders for target shooting, because of the low cost of their light loads, and because I keep them below max pressures.

When it comes to maximum loads, different calibers have different requirements. In your example, I would say that Unique or similar powders are fine for the .45, but that slightly slower powder have been developped for the .40 (and done well in the 9).

It also seems that powders have a preferred range of pressure to operate with best accuracy and safety; roughly, the faster the powder the lower the pressure/speed.

Looking for "max" loads with too fast a powder will present the risk of overpressure, as it will react more quickly to changes in components and shooting conditions. Also, too fast a powder won't give you all the speed the caliber is capable of.

kg

Good morning
When I am up htere I use Acc#5 for most my calibers that you show. Meters good out of my 20 year old Dillon and I think works as good as anything I have tried. Granted there are some newer powders that I have NOT tried but I will most likely keep on with Acc#5.
Down here all I have is Unique and if that is all that existed I could get along just fine.
Mike in Peru God Bless you

Welcome to Reloaders Guide CW41000.

You don't say what powder you're using, but my advice is to take what you have been told with a grain of salt. I, for instance, have done fine using Unique for all three for target/practice loads. If you wanted to load them to the highest possible velocities (not a really wise thing to do as it's hard on the pistols) or you wanted to get the maximum accuracy from each for competition, then you would have to be looking at three powders as each round and each pistol will have different preferences - that was probably what was behind the comment. If you are happy with your results so far, then I see no reason to change your loads. A progressive is not the press to be using for serious load development with multiple calibers anyway, it's too much of a PITA to keep readjusting everything.

We have an old saying up here in New England: If it works, don't fix it.

for just shooting i like titegroup.
it works pretty good in all three of those and covers the 38,44 and 45 colt too.
none of them are really great loads but not bad ones either.
i consider them to be on the normal side in the auto's and on the lighter to mid range in the revolvers.

Fast burning (Bullseye) for 45 ACP slow burning (2400) for magnum loads.

Alliant has some good marketing information telling you what powder to use with what kind of loads.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/default.aspx

I have used 700X in all my pistols with good results. 231 has also preformed well.

The concept is this, powder should fill 100% of the case space available and reach the SAAMI Standard Pressure at that point.

Powders that are too fast reach the pressure ceiling before filling 100% of the available space.

Powders that are too slow fill 100% of the space before reaching the SAAMI Standard Pressure.

In small cases like all three you mention, a little airspace is not critical with most powders. (Exceptions being some of the ball powders usually reserved for magnum loads anyway).

As cases get larger, this becomes more critical as powders that fill less than 65-70% of the case capacity can lead to SEEs or other strange phenomena where pressure spikes dramatically. With Rifle cases, and ball powders near perfect to slightly too slow is much more critical.


Having said the above, some powders (the faster pistol powders) tend to be comparatively immune to these phenomena and are used quite frequently in loading rifles with Cast bullets. (Reddot and Unique jump to mind)


To put it simply, with the three cartridges you are working with, I wouldn't waste time looking for the perfect combo for two reasons.

1.) It doesn't exist. You might get close, you wont get perfect and if by some miracle you do, you'll run out of that lot # of powder and the next one will be different.

2.) It doesn't matter anyway. If your loads are safe and function to your satisfaction, what else is there to achieve?


Good luck and safe shooting.

Wiljen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wiljen

The concept is this, powder should fill 100% of the case space available and reach the SAAMI Standard Pressure at that point. Wiljen

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WHAT?????

I think bullet and powder manufacturers would disagree with you. Burn rate/characteristics verses cartridge and cartridge configuration trumps filling the shell.

I repeat, Alliant describes which if their powders if best for your particular load. They have significant R&D invested in developing powders specifically designed to perform with specific loads; case full or not. There are simply burn rates/characteristics that lend themselves to superior performance in specific load types no matter if the shell is full or not.

Frankly I have witnesses unburned powder remaining in the shell when you have a poor match of powder/load.

As a matter of fact here is the powder for your 40 and 9MM

http://www.alliantpowder.com/product...er_pistol.aspx

And this is your 45 ACP powder

http://www.alliantpowder.com/product.../bullseye.aspx

the unburnt powder is due to not reaching the pressure needed for a full burn.
there are a couple of ways to correct this.
in my 44 mag with 2400 it was to use a magnum primer to raise the pressure initially.
coincidentally in my 45 colt with the same load and a 10 grain heavier boolit the mag primer was not needed.
in my 357 a tighter neck tension was needed for full burn.
but loading density is a consideration to factor in, especially in an autoloader where the powder it tossed back and forth in the case.
you can verify a powders sensitivity with a chronograph,simply by just tilting the bbl down or up before each shot.
i know it makes a difference.
as far as the right powder some are just softer shooting and easier on the gun.
example is unique versus titegroup in a 45 acp.
the velocities are the same[ the unique was more consistent] but you can feel the recoil difference between them and see it on the boolit deformation.
this is also one application where unique doesn't seem to burn dirty must be a good combination of pressure and case filling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swamp

WHAT?????

Burn rate/characteristics verses cartridge and cartridge configuration trumps filling the shell.

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read the statement - reaches 100% of the available space at the appropriate pressure level. That is the science of burn rate/Cartridge configuration.

Granted just filling the case does nothing - all powders that are too slow for an application will fill the case. Getting near complete case fill at the pressure/velocity you are trying to attain is the key.

Well the Unique is the "One size fits all" powder and they admit that; it does a good job in many loads. However I found in a 45 ACP Unique didn't perform any where's near like Bulleseye. Unique is developed as a shot gun load; it's secondary use is handgun loads making it "not the premium choice".

If you just pay attention to what the experts say, you'll have superior results. But most people get stuck in a grove and defend their position in spite of specifically designed propellants.

This is a 5 shot, hand held group with a 45 ACP, 200 gr, LSWC, 5.2 gr Bullseye at 50'. (shell not filled with powder) Those are 1" squares.

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/40...500x500Q85.jpg

50 shots rapid fire same load and distance
http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/13...500x500Q85.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wiljen

read the statement - reaches 100% of the available space at the appropriate pressure level. That is the science of burn rate/Cartridge configuration.

Granted just filling the case does nothing - all powders that are too slow for an application will fill the case. Getting near complete case fill at the pressure/velocity you are trying to attain is the key.

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I'll agree to disagree to that as a foundational rule. Many of my competition win loads are totally to the contrary of your rule.

i use 3 gr of bullseye for my 150 swc .38 spl loads and 6 grs. bullseye for my .357 mag loads..... 7000 grs to a pound and this stuff goes a long way... it's very consistant in my s&w model 27... chonos at half the sd of factory loads in both calibers.... the .357 mag is right at 1235 fps............. swamp is right ... you really wouldnt want to fill a case with bullseye and be anywhere around it when it was set off............................................... .....

LIFE IS SHORT.....

the 2nd amendment protects us all....................

Alliant Power Pistol is a good choice for most handgun loads, except the larger magnums. I like the Power Pistol for many loads but I also use Hodgdon Universal Clays, AA#7, and Hercules 2400. Both Pistol Power and AA#7 do a good job of filling a case and are often listed as one of the perfered powders for 9mm and 40 S&W.