versifier
10-01-2014, 03:33 PM
I like .45's. I like the .45ACP, I like the .45LC, there is even a place in my heart for the .45GAP ( I don't own one, but if someone wants to donate one to the "I Fund", it would be gratefully received). I shoot .451 230gr HP's in sabots out of my .54 smokepole. They kill cleanly, reliably, well beyond the 100yds or so my ageing eyes limit my use of peep sights these days. So will the .45LC and I have been keeping half an eye open for an older 10" or 24" Contender barrel in good condition for my collection for the last few years. A .440 round ball knocks a deer a$$ over bandbox when placed correctly.
But Clayt's and Mike's recent experiences with the .45-70 have got me to thinking. I have enjoyed several rifles over the years, but nothing would ever get me to own a Contender barrel of any length so chambered. .458 rifle bullets are double the weight of most .451 handgun bullets. They fly with softball-like trajectories and produce excessive recoil when pushed to hunting velocities. So, why are there no rifle cartridges built around .451 handgun bullets for hunting?
The .45ACP isn't much of a deer killer unless the ranges are close, but I got to thinking about its history. It is based on the same case head developed over a century ago by the Mauser brothers, along with the -06 and the .308 and all the hundreds (thousands) of wildcats and factory rounds developed from them over the years. While the case body is just a tad too small in diameter for the larger .458 rifle bullets, it is just the right size to hold a .451 handgun bullet. Hmmm.
What about necking up a .308 case to hold those same cast or jacketed 230gr .451HP's that drop deer so well? Someone out there MUST have done some research on such a round, but I can find nothing in any of my books, nor have I found anything in my online researches. The bullet wouldn't need a gas check, 2000-2200fps would be all you'd need under 200yds, the recoil would be manageable (compared to a full charge .458mag or a modern single shot .45-70), and you have millions of rifles out there with the correct size bolt face and needing only a new barrel to do their thing. It would be suitable even for the big bears as well as moose, deer, caribou, elk, bison, hogs, and a lot of the big African game, too. It would not be a long range round by any stretch of the imagination, but no .45 really is.
Besides as a large game hunting round it would also work well on Stoner's original larger AR platform and easily lend itself to subsonic suppressed loads for military and law enforcement two-legged problems, and with an AP bullet it would go right through an aluminum engine block at reasonable ranges.
What do you boys think? I'm going to post it on the FB RLB page to and get their opinions too.
But Clayt's and Mike's recent experiences with the .45-70 have got me to thinking. I have enjoyed several rifles over the years, but nothing would ever get me to own a Contender barrel of any length so chambered. .458 rifle bullets are double the weight of most .451 handgun bullets. They fly with softball-like trajectories and produce excessive recoil when pushed to hunting velocities. So, why are there no rifle cartridges built around .451 handgun bullets for hunting?
The .45ACP isn't much of a deer killer unless the ranges are close, but I got to thinking about its history. It is based on the same case head developed over a century ago by the Mauser brothers, along with the -06 and the .308 and all the hundreds (thousands) of wildcats and factory rounds developed from them over the years. While the case body is just a tad too small in diameter for the larger .458 rifle bullets, it is just the right size to hold a .451 handgun bullet. Hmmm.
What about necking up a .308 case to hold those same cast or jacketed 230gr .451HP's that drop deer so well? Someone out there MUST have done some research on such a round, but I can find nothing in any of my books, nor have I found anything in my online researches. The bullet wouldn't need a gas check, 2000-2200fps would be all you'd need under 200yds, the recoil would be manageable (compared to a full charge .458mag or a modern single shot .45-70), and you have millions of rifles out there with the correct size bolt face and needing only a new barrel to do their thing. It would be suitable even for the big bears as well as moose, deer, caribou, elk, bison, hogs, and a lot of the big African game, too. It would not be a long range round by any stretch of the imagination, but no .45 really is.
Besides as a large game hunting round it would also work well on Stoner's original larger AR platform and easily lend itself to subsonic suppressed loads for military and law enforcement two-legged problems, and with an AP bullet it would go right through an aluminum engine block at reasonable ranges.
What do you boys think? I'm going to post it on the FB RLB page to and get their opinions too.