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Thread: Rifle Neck/Shoulder Sizing Problems During Reloading

  1. #1

    Default Rifle Neck/Shoulder Sizing Problems During Reloading

    I am a recent entrant into the world of reloading. I have done mostly pistols, but have also tried my hand at rifle cartridges - 25-06 mainly.

    I have an old Mouser Sporter I received from my father-in-law that I have been reloading for.

    Here is my issue - I have reloaded around 100 rounds, and when I was at the range the other week, the first 15 of 20 I tried didn't fire! The primer was dimpled, but the round did not go off. A few of them fired after trying a second time, but for the most part the rounds simply didn't fire.

    I checked the firing pin and it is clean and properly lubricated.

    I then tried factory loads, and every one fired.

    I talked with a gunsmith at a range I frequent and he said I may have resized the shoulder just enough that the round "moves" in the breach preventing the firing pin to strike with enough force to set the primer off.

    Has anyone else ever heard of this? If so, is the brass so much junk now? Do I simply pull the bullet, powder, and primers and scrap the rounds I have loaded?

    I haven't found anyone who has ever had this issue, so I have no idea what to do at this point.

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Bah Humbug! Hellrazor's Avatar
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    Did you reload brass that was fired in your 25-06 or was it from someone else?
    Did you full length size them?
    -----
    NRA Endowment Life Member

  3. #3
    Spam Hammer fryboy's Avatar
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    the "moves" you mention is termed "headspace", and that is entirely possible , it can also be caused by incorrect primer seating , if the primer isnt seated fully and set then the firing pin's impact pushes it deeper into the primer pocket , quite often a second hit of the pin ignites it , and ...it could be a combination of both
    for best results in a bolt action and when there's only one gun of that caliber being reloaded it's generally best to size as little as possible, quite often this prolongs case longevity, rifle chambers vary if you've sized the cases down too far they're not trash per se but they would require necking up to a larger caliber and then back down leaving a little false shoulder for it to head space on . you'd have to pull the disassemble the rounds and pull the bullets of course

  4. #4
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    A mauser action has a controlled feed wherein the heavy claw extractor firmly holds the rim of the case. If the cases were resized with the shoulder set back too far it the case could not slide forward into the extra chamber length as long as the extractor is functional. So something remains unexplained and we shall have to seek clues to solve the mystery.

    First please tell us about the rifle, history, etc. Factory sporter or sporterized mil action?

    Then we need to know about the brass you used and its history.

    Lastly we need to know what kind of tooling you used and the methods of loading it.

    Tell us the whole story and we will find the clues in it we need to help you figure it out, or it will generate more questions and we'll get to the bottom of it.

    Remember what it says on the cover of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "Don't Panic". Something is indeed strange here, but it is not unsolvable with enough information.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  5. #5
    NRA Distinguished Life Kirbydoc's Avatar
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    Yes I have heard of it happening.
    Everything said above but the first thing I would check is to see if the primers were seated deeply enough. Sometimes a primer not seated deeply enough will be driven forward by the firing pin to a more correct seating depth and not ignite because the force delivered to it is used up moving the primer.
    The least likely scenario although it sometimes happens is primers with no priming compound or maybe no anvil.
    Check some primers you have to see if they look OK (have priming compound and anvil correctly installed) then check the seating depth to make sure primers in reloaded cartridges you haven't tried yet to see if primers are seated about 1/1000" below the case head.

  6. #6

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    Yes, all the brass is factory that I have fired myself.
    Yes, I full length resized them using RCBS dies.

  7. #7

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    OK, I may be getting the jist of this posting (and then maybe not).
    I'll try and answer all the questions here in the hopes that you can help me figure this out.
    As far as I can tell, all the primers are set correctly. (CCI primers). When I first had the problem, I did try and re-fire some of the rounds, and a few did fire, but most did not.
    As for the rifle history - I received this from my father-in-law. Unfortunately, he has passed, so I can't ask him about where he got his hands on it. I had to have it restocked because he originally had the stock cut down for his wife.
    The person who put the stock on it told me it was a mouser action, but whether factory or customized I have no idea.
    As for the loads - I am using an RCBS Rock Chucker with RCBS dies and loading in batches by hand (not progressive).
    I was having problems getting rounds to chamber/go into battery. I finally discovered I had to load from the magazine and not simply put the round in the chamber. I tell you this to also say that I managed to jamb a few rounds into the breach and needed to use a cleaning rod to get them out. During this I also discovered some of the bullets were only lightly seated as the cleaning rod pushed them into the brass.
    I also have Lee dies for my pistols, and they have four dies per caliber, whereas my RCBS only had three. In talking with some friends who load mostly pistols, they mentioned the fourth die was a "factory resizing" die which ensured the rounds were uniform diameter after all the handling of reloading. I obtained a fourth die for the 25-06 and used it to ensure the bullets were cramped securely.
    So, there you have everything thus far.
    I eagerly await your continued pondering.

  8. #8
    Spam Hammer fryboy's Avatar
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    lolz @ 4th die
    in a rifle set most are two die sets , a decapper/sizer and a seater/crimper , a 3 die set from most makers ( sans lee ) would add a neck sizing only die , lee makes a factory crimp die ( FCD ) in rifles this in no way resizes the whole shebang ,it uses a collet to "squish" the neck in a crimp , a crimp btw that looks much like winchester's factory crimp

    about the "I was having problems getting rounds to chamber/go into battery. I finally discovered I had to load from the magazine and not simply put the round in the chamber. I tell you this to also say that I managed to jamb a few rounds into the breach and needed to use a cleaning rod to get them out" ...
    sounds like in essence the extractor wasnt engaging , this one makes me say huh ? even tho i can picture it in my mind it sure makes me want to look at the bolt tho that doesnt have much to do with the going bang problem , i'm thinking that this caused by the case not starting att he bottom of the bolt and doesnt slide up into the extractor ( bolt close in such cases ? )

    back to the meat of the matter ... as stated a primer not fully seated often sounds like what you described but conversely a deep seated primer can also cause problems , seating primers while seemingly simple is actually a fine art , too deep and one can actually crack the priming compound pellet thus rendering it mostly junk , it's usually less common than the shallow set primer , in most cases the shallow set primer will ignite upon subsequent attempts to fire it , the crushed pellet however will show a good firing pin indentation but fail to ignite
    ( how's that for more mud ? )

  9. #9

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    @fryboy -

    I took the rounds that didn't fire, removed the bullet and powder out, and marked them as DNF (Did Not Fire) while I figured out what was going on.
    When I get a chance I will pull out a primer or two and see what the "backside" of the primer looks like. That may indicate if the primer was too deep, thus cracking the priming compound.

    More to follow..........

  10. #10
    Spam Hammer fryboy's Avatar
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    If you decap live primers make sure to go slow on the ram and for pete's ( and safety's ) sake make sure you have eye protection on when doing so
    usually a too deep or a too high ( not quite set ) primer is readily apparent, a straight edge across the case head would show either one , ideally they should contact the bottom of the pocket and barely be below flush

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check        

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