Nees ome help !

[WildmanJack]

Hey guys I humbly come to you for advice. I have a Winchester 94AE in .45 Colt. I've shot my loads, the gun shop's reloads, and factory loads. I get the same black burnt powder mark on one side of the case every time. It extends from the case mouth to the haed of the case, but ONLY on one side. I starting to wonder if there's a problem with the firing chamber or something. I'm using a 235 Gr. LRPFN boolet over 5.0 Grains of Clays. But I'm thinking that the load isn't the problem as the same thing happens with factory and other peoples loads. Any ideas out there???? If this is normal then I have no problem with it but, something tells me that something isn't right..

Man I can't spell the title of the thread right, maybe I can't load right either..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[405]

Well, it's a pretty common thing with cast, low pressure loads. I get the smoke on about half the low pressure cast stuff I load for the old Winchesters and Colts ..... trying to keep the pressure down. Seems like your load is in the "Cowboy" category so it is low pressure... as would be the shop's loads and likely the factory loads. Also, it's very unlikely that your chamber is to blame.... even an over sized chamber or out of round chamber shouldn't "cause" the problem. The brass case simply expands to fill the chamber upon firing. So, my guess would be one, two or a combination of two things..... low pressure and/or hard brass. Might try going up .1 gr. and test fire a few.... then go up .1 gr. and test fire a few. The gun is plenty strong but don't want to push it too far.... certainly not over max published loads. The Lyman Reloading Handbook # 48 lists 45 Colt loads for the Winchester AE carbine. To correct if hard brass is part of the problem.... that's a little tricky especially with short pistol brass. Could soften by annealing maybe the top 1/3 of the case.... but annealing is always tricky and annealing the base portion is a big no-no.

Without knowing the type of brass, diameter of bullet, type of reloadng dies.... it's hard to suggest other specific remedies. Your bore should be nominal .451" groove diameter. You can slug your bore to get exact groove diameter to verify it's true dimensions. With a .451" groove diameter you could easily go to .452" sized bullets. That may help match the loaded round to chamber for better fit, better seal. You could try Starline brass- it's good brass. You may try minimally resizing the fired brass so it fits more snugly to chamber dimension.... still need to resize enough so you get good neck tension on bullet... one thing that helps is to use just enough roll crimp to turn the case mouth down into the forward portion of the crimp groove- but not hard into the bottom of the crimp groove. Over-doing the roll crimp will actually loosen the neck tension. A Lee factory crimp die can help prevent over-crimping.

Just some thoughts. Good luck

[runfiverun]

i use that load also and get the same results in 2 92's and 2 pistols
the neck tension does help as well as the crimp, but i have tried this load in r-p ,starline,
win, and fed cases it does that on all of them, it is still my fun load.

[versifier]

It is a common thing to see with low pressure loads, but it should not be happening with hotter factory ammo. I don't think it's a dangerous situation, especially with the light cast loads you are using, (and 45Colt is not a high pressure round by any stretch of the imagination, even the factory stuff that is loaded to be safe to shoot in older revolvers) but it might not be a bad idea to have a chamber cast done to make sure it was cut correctly. 45Colts can be and often are handloaded pretty hot for modern revolvers, rifles, Contenders, and I would think twice before shooting anything in that class until you are sure there is no problem. Whenever something seems odd like that, it is always best to find out what is causing it. It may be, and probably is, just poor case obturation from low pressure loadings, but the fact that it happens with Factory stuff too makes the little warning bell go off for me. I would want to be sure if it was happening to me.

[WildmanJack]

Thanks so much you guys for the info. The factory loads I was using were factory "cowboy" loads so I guess they were low pressure as well. I think I'll ask my dentist for some of that rubber stuff he uses to make impressions and do an impression of the chamber just to be sure.
I didn't think I could shoot anything loaded for a TC out of this gun. Somebody told me that the Winchester was not made as well as the Marlin and I had to keep the rounds light or chance blowing the bolt out of the gun!

[405]

A chamber casting is a good idea if you can get the precision required to make a judgement. As far as the Marlin having a stronger action and the heavier loads blowing the bolt out of the Winchester???? Sounds like the person making the statement was a Marlin man If he is comparing a Marlin 1895 with the Win 1894 then yes the Marlin is likely stronger, but it is comparing apples and oranges! If I were comparing the strength of the Win 94 and Marlin 94.... I'd be hard pressed to say which was stronger, but may say the Winchester. Now accuracy is another matter?

Oh by the way- a destructive test was done some time ago but may have limited application here but interesting for sure. Can be looked up as the "454 Casull lever action" test. It compared the relative action strengths among the Marlin 336, Win 94AE, Pre-war Win 94 and a modern Win/Brn 92. From weakest to strongest in this test was: Marlin 336, Win 94AE, old Win 94, Win 92. Too bad a modern Marlin 1895 wasn't compared to a modern Win 1886 or a Marlin 94 wasn't included. Obviously money becomes an issue to destructively test guns for curiosity and to answer campfire debates

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch...hp/t-6998.html

[versifier]

What the dentist uses for tooth impressions is not what you need. Any gunsmith can easily do a chamber cast for you, but you can also do it yourself with the right stuff. Cerrosafe is a low melting point metal that is made specifically for casting chambers and throats. You can get it from Midway or Brownells. It is fairly easy to use and won't hurt the gun. A good micrometer (not a dial caliper) is the other thing you need. Cerrosafe shrinks a tad bit on hardening, then expands as it cools and will reach the same size as the chamber after a certain amount of time (I want to say 10min, but I can't remember exactly as it's been quite a while). It's also reusable which is good because it may take a few tries to get the hang of it.

And yes, the cowboy loads are very low pressure, so they may not have enough oomph to be giving you the data you need. First, buy a box or regular factory 45Colt ammo and run them through the rifle to see if it still happens at normal pressure levels. If that clears up the problem, you may still have a problem with the chamber, but it is not serious. On the other hand, if it does not clear it up, something is not right and you need to find out what is going on.

[WildmanJack]

Versifier,
Thanks a million for the info. I'm going to run some good factory loads thru her first then see what happens. I've been wanting to do that anyway, but nobody around here carries a good factory load. I guess I'll have to order thm online. Again I can't thank you guys enough for all the info..

[WildmanJack]

Just ordered a box of Heavy .45 Colt, 325 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N. (1325 fps/M.E. 1267 ft. lbs.) from Buffalo Bore. They said these are perfectly safe in any Winchester or Marlin mod.94 So we'll see how they shoot and I'll post the results.. Thanks again guys...

[runfiverun]

owwwwww
hope ya gotta recoil pad on that thing
i shoot some 250's that hurt outa my 92's around 1400
cant imagine them big ones. bet it's like a 45-70