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Thread: 45 ACP sizing die

  1. #1
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    Default 45 ACP sizing die

    I am going to start reloading my 45 with cast bullets from Lyman mold #452374. This is a non gas check bullet 225gr.

    I slugged the barrel and the grove diameter is .450

    My question is what size sizing die should I get? .451 or .452

    Thanks
    Steve

  2. #2
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    Either. Sometimes you will have a problem with certain chambers when trying to load the larger diameter bullets (Siggs are known for it). Other than that, I prefer to run them as large as possible.
    "Stand your ground.
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    runfiverun runfiverun's Avatar
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    if it were me i'd go for the 452 it will work in a larger variety of guns.
    you could always get a lee fcd die if feeding is an issue as it will generally squeeze down cast boolits.
    452 will often work well in the newer 45 colts too.

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    I just picked up the new Remington 1911R1 today. It really is a nice gun. I was shooting amo from 1945 that I have and it all shot great through the thing.

    With the low volosity that these shoot I am wondering if the Lyman #2 aloy is too hard

  5. #5
    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    As long as your bullets are sized correctly, you can run a very soft mix through your handguns with no leading problems. Lube is not as critical with handguns, either, but I do avoid hard lubes as well as hard alloys. Softer bullets will always obturate better. You begin to run into problems with them only when you start trying to push them too fast. Hotter rounds do need harder bullets because softer alloys will strip when their rotational energy exceeds their strength. You know this is happening when you start seeing leading in the muzzle end of the barrel

    I run a much softer alloy through all my .45ACP's. #2 is right around WW's for hardness (composition of WW alloy does vary quite a bit, but both are the minimum softness for rifle hunting bullets for reliable expansion). I used 1/2WW 1/2 pure for a standard handgun mix for many years, but now with WW's getting harder to find, two years ago I switched to 1/4WW 3/4 pure and have had no problems with it at all.

    For most handgun plinking/target bullets, an alloy of 2-3% tin and 97-8% pure lead works fine.

    For GC'd magnum revolver hunting loads, I don't dilute the WW's.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
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    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

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    runfiverun runfiverun's Avatar
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    my standard alloy is 75% ww's and 25% soft, usually the old stick-on's. and some tin.
    i use it for about everything, waterdropping for rifles, air cooling for revolvers and auto pistols.
    i'd rather soften down a load a bit [or change to a bit slower powder], rather than change the alloy.
    i do use a close alloy to the #2 but to maximize a molds usefullness, mainly for rifles and target shooting.
    this is the one area i and versifier differ i use mainly a harder lube but make my own, as i get benefits [ at least in my mind] such as storage and speed of lubing/sizing.

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    Dogs Like Him versifier's Avatar
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    If we all agreed about everything, we'd buy commercially cast and spend our time posting complaints. With a little bit of experimenting, you'll come up with your own opinion, and it will probably differ from both of ours. That's what makes it so much fun.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

  8. #8
    runfiverun runfiverun's Avatar
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    it's mostly a case of make what you can get work for you.
    i get sticks of moly for nothing and lithium grease at a government discount and live very close to whitelabel lube.
    plus i get my bees wax from randy rat over at cast boolits at a very reasonable price.
    so a combo of cheap and free, my volumn of casting, and the lubesizers i use is what drives my lube uses.
    when i found it increasingly harder to get ww's [after getting them for free and i finally needed some after not having to look for 15+ years] prompted the softening down, then i found i actually liked the softer alloy even better.
    i am right about half of the commercial alloy of 2/6/92.
    if i need a harder alloy i resort to being cheap again and use the zinc ww's as a hardening agent.
    they are soluble to about 1.5%.

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    I have read that pweter is a very good source of tin and it is much cheeper than buying a 1lb spool of solder. I see that stuff in garage sales all the time for pennies.

    Was wondering if a ratio of 20 to 1. Or 20lb pure lead to 1lb WW would be good??? That was suggested by a fellow at a gun shop the other day.

    Pure lead is what I have the most of. Seven hundred pounds of it to be exact. I have about 100lbs of antimony. That was all of the free stuff I have aquired. Like everyone else I use to be able to get WW's, but they are harder to get now days.

  10. #10
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    Pewter is an excellent source of tin. I have a stash of pewter ingots from a lady who used to cast miniatures before she retired. Very old pewter has a lot of lead in it, but is often worth more as antiques - if it's in bad shape it makes great bullets when cut with pure. There are a number of different pewter alloys, some of them even contain things like copper and silver, so it's hard to make a blanket statement as to the ratios, but for much of it 20:1 will work just fine for most handgun bullets. I snag yard sale pewter whenever possible and have my "yard saleing" friends on the lookout for it at all times.

    With WW's I use a 4:1 pure to WW ratio for handgun bullets, but there should be no problem diluting them more if the bullets are properly sized and you don't push the velocity.

    2-3% tin is enough to insure good fillout. I even add 1% tin to muzzle loader balls and bullets as it lowers casting temperature and fills out better without causing problems loading that happen with harder mixes.

    Is your antimony pure or in an alloy? If pure be aware that it is highly toxic to work with and it is necessary to get it and the lead pretty hot (well over 800*F and at those temps you need to be concerned about lead vapor, too) for them to form a stable alloy. Wash your hands constantly and wear disposable gloves when handling it as it can get through your skin in unalloyed form. You don't want to know what can happen if it gets into your system. Once alloyed it is safe to handle with normal lead precautions.

    The up side is that lead/antimony alloys can be hardened even more by water dropping or even better by heat treating, which makes it an excellent addition to rifle bullets for target loads. If you water drop then size, the driving bands will be softened to base (air cooled) hardness by the process of working them, so if you want to make high velocity rifle bullets, you want to be sizing then heat treating. If I want hard bullets, I usually just add linotype to the mix rather than hardening by other methods as over time heat treated or water dropped bullets will return to base hardness. Mostly I'm wanting hunting bullets and for them I use straight WW's.
    Last edited by versifier; 06-12-2010 at 12:16 AM.
    "Stand your ground.
    Do not fire unless fired upon.
    But if they mean to have a war let it begin here."
    - Capt. Parker, Lexington Militia, April 19, 1775

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check        

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