45 acp

[rjc]

HELLO! I have run into a small problem with reloading 45 ACP i just bought a taurus pt 1911 i realy like it but when i started loading ammo for it i noticed it was starting to push the bullets into the case when it feed from the magazine,i adusted the bell plug to were it is putting a very small bell in the mouth,the bullet just sets in the case mouth enough to were it just clears the rim 1/64 or less,im loading jacketed bullets, when the bullets are loaded i can push the tip of the bullets against wood pretty hard and they dont move but when feed from the magazine they do, it does this on RN JACKETED and jacketed hp more so on the hollow points, the hp are hornady xtp 185 gr, and the RN are rainers 230 gr,the expander plug is just barley hitting the case mouth,and i am taper crimping,what now?thanks.

[versifier]

While I am no way a 1911 expert, I have been shooting them for some years. Some issues are common to semi auto pistols as a class, some are particular to the platform, some are the fault of poor quality of worn out magazines, and some are the fault of the ammo.

It is not the belling that is causing the problem, nor is it lack of crimp.

Does it happen with factory ammo? If it does it's not the brass, if not it is the brass. First step is to buy a box of decent quality factory ammo and check it out.

I suspect it is the brass. That is, I think, the most likely cause and the easiest to remedy. Every batch of brass is different, and some have thicker case walls than others. What I believe is happening is that you have a batch (or batches) of brass with thin case walls and while the cases are being sized to the proper outside diameter, due to the thinness, they have insufficient neck tension to hold the bullets properly.

If I am correct, you have two ways around the problem. Get different brass or use what you have and shoot properly oversized cast bullets. That solves the what, but not the why.

To be sure it really is the brass, a few questions....
What brand(s) of brass is this happening with? (Don't tell me you've been shooting Amerc and trying to reload it, please. Just checking.)
Are there certain brands that it is not happening with?
If some brands of case are working properly, measure the case walls with a mic, (not a caliper), and see how much difference there is.
What brand(s) of dies are you using?
Are you taper crimping as a separate operation?

As to why it's happening, I have one good guess.

While I am about as far from a fan of any Taurus product as it is possible for a man to be, this time (for once) I really don't think it's the fault of the pistol itself. While there is a very slight possibility that you have a rough feed ramp, I think you would be seeing more classic FTF's than telescoping with a feed ramp issue. But it never hurts to polish any pistol's feed ramp, no matter what your choice of bullets.

I think there may be an angle of feed issue with your magazine(s). That could well be at least a contributing factor to the problem, if not the root cause. The way to check is to try it with a good quality mag and see what happens. Not all 1911 mags are created equal (some are absolute trash) and not all all firearms manufacturers have consistent quality control of tolerances and component materials.

Please let us know what happens.

[runfiverun]

you ain't got enough neck tension.
measure the inside of your sized case and the outside of your bullet.
you need about 2 thou difference 3 is probably better.
versifier is saying your brass has lost it's ability to spring back,if it was rifle brass it would need to be annealed.

[kg42]

Hi rjc!

Which brand of dies do you have? It sounds like you can set them to bell without expanding...

Anyways I had the problem years ago. Like said above:
the mag might let the bullet come down too hard on the feeding ramp (are the HP's noses damaged?),
the expanding plug might be too fat,
the sizing die might be a bit large,
the brass might not cooperate,
or all of the above.

My problem went with the gun as the new one won't work with the old mags, and demands minimum cartridge oal to chamber (the bullet seats at the bottom of the expanded part of the case).
The fact that I stopped resizing my cast bullets probably helps too...

Depending on your answer about the expanding die, you migh be able to thin it so that it doesn't over-expand the brass.
Try reloading without expanding, only belling or chamfering the brass. If you ruin a case that way there's a good chance it is tight enough.

Also try a shorter oal, if practical and safe (reduce your load); it will give more grip to the bullet.

[rjc]

the brass is[ federal one fired] and remington new brass and some winchester once fired,same problem with all the brass,magazines ,2 are the tauras and one is a colt mag the colt mag seems better made ,but it does the same thing also. taper crimping in the same operation as bullet seating,have even put a hard taper crimp on them with little results, the bullet when seated does not flare the side walls of the case out enough to even notice if this helps ? the dies are rcbs dies, the ramp is pretty polished compared to some 1911 it may need more?im not sure with the factory ammo at this piont, but i will check it out tonight and see if it is.keep it comming,thanks.

[rjc]

currently at the min load recomended for the bullet weights, it will bell with out expanding just touching the case with the plug and i mean barely touching. the bullet will just start in the case by hand it wont even stand up, i reduced the bell to hardly nothing at all, i checked all the bullets .451 and readjusted the tamper crimp went from just a little crimp to a hard crimp,hardly any differance at all ,used a colt mag ,made better! but no differance at all,one thing tho when i run the case up into sizer,[sizes outside only] theres not much force needed they go in pretty easy.

[rjc]

I think im wrong about the expander because it has a bell molded into the shank A little ways up the shank,could this be the problem the shank is a bit big on the sizer plug?before it gets to the bell. and could it be emery cloth down to get a better grip?

[kg42]

Don't over-do the crimping in an autoloader as the case head spaces on its mouth. The crimping should be functionnal, so as to avoid hang ups etc.

Contact RCBS and explain the problem to them, they have a good rep for caring.
Like most brands, they are going to turn dies with various effects, results ranging from wasp-sizing cases to problems like yours.

I am sure that factory ammo have some kind of bonding between brass and bullet, ... not fair ... I also wondered if they had the same problem, but didn't want to buy more of it.

I would expect any bullet to "show" on the outside of the case, but you are not too bad if you cannot move it by hand.
I know how the problem can bug you, but the bottom line is that if the gun is reliable and the loads are safe with a slightly pushed in bullet, you are a lucky 1911 owner.

[kg42]

could it be emery cloth down to get a better grip?

That's how reloaders do. But call/Email RCBS first before altering the die. It might be that your case is not resized tight enough.

Try measuring the case after sizing and after expanding.

[rjc]

thanks guys, another ? how far down from the case mouth should you be able to see the roll crimp?and just a update on the problem i am having, i emry clothed the shank a little on the expander plug and polished it up good, it measures between .448 & .449 which seemed to help SOME and polished the feed ramp up[ looks like glass] this seemed to help some also, and feeds the hollow pionts better,i have also noticed that if i run the magizine 1 round short of what it holds ,it feeds higher on the ramp and cures the problem of pushing back the bullet, if loaded full ,the bullets seem to drop down on the nose more before feeding which causes the nose of the bullet to hit father down on the ramp, maybe most of the problem is the magizines,the factory ammo seemed to do better but not much.