Mushroom talk, bullet performance?

I have been trying to save a few dimes by gleening what I can concerning bullet performance, while trying to fill in the holes with my own testing and experience. For those of you who parallel me concerning loading your own, testing it, and finally bringing it to fruition with a ten ring group or a 'perfect' kill on a game animal, I'd like to hear, and see, your results.

I will try to round up some of my mushroom compilation and post with what media, what charge, how far and group size, gotta dig around for old data.

My new pet is a 3" 357 and my quest for suitable performance. I have tried hard cast, hornady xtp, speer GD-125/158 and jhp140's. The 125's open nice but with a mushroom of .445 I wasn't impressed. Seems like diameter is an issue, the xtp's fold back nice but not 'out' as well, barely touching .42-.44 diameter. Seems like xtps perform flawless in larger 41 &44 cal but not so much out of 357. Velocities are in the 1200-1290 range for 125's and around 1100-1180 for 158's. Suggestions?

Also love to hear about rifle bullet experience. Seems like few shooters test their bullets on anything other than paper and game, if it prints a hole and the animal doesn't get away they consider it successful. I like to dispense the maximum capability of a caliber within the intended game as possible. Love to hear about the big bores. 8mm being my main caliber of choice, also dabble with 416 and 30 cals. Thanks:-D

Well, you're right. I believe there's too much hype about bullet failure or separation. My 7mm Mag shoots where I want it, and the last 4 shots that I took at deer resulted in a dead deer, with only one traveling about 30 yards.
I haven't recovered a bullet, but the deer were right where they were supposed to be.

I have found some bullets fired from a .270 where the core had slipped the jacket, but I still had a dead deer, with little or no tracking.

The only experience that I have with XTP's is on a large dog that tried to eat me one morning. Shot it with a .45 auto and that was that. Two years prior I had the same scenario with a big Rottweiler that tried the same thing as I was going to my truck. One shot with a cast bullet from a .44 mag at about 6 feet ended the attack. I was jumpy for three months afterward....

bullets are designed to work within certain velocity windows.
in the smaller cals [pistol] gold dots are hard to beat 9mm-38, 40 s&w and up it is a game of
penetration vs expansion.
as in two holes are better then one, expandables are better for defense [ what is behind target ] penetration is for hunting.
a person facing you is what 12" thick.
and a person to the side is 24" same as a deer [ approx ]

for rifles it is again velocity that dictates your bullet performance
an 7mm at 2700 has different requirements than a 7mm at 3000+
as far as how the bullet , the same bullet, is going to perform.

now cast boolits are a different matter all-together there is no "performance"
with a cast boolit.
you may get some upsetting of the boolit but it needs to penetrate and make two holes.
"energy-dump" just doesn't work.
this don't mean you need to penetrate a grizzly from nose to tail.
it wouldn't hurt but it aint necessary, through the sides is good, as this would be enough to reach the vitals from the front.

if there comes a time i am expecting trouble i grab one of my 45 autos i read some where
a 9 mm may expand but a 45 dont srink i like a soft 230 coast boolit i dont worry about leadingi can clean it later and a stiff load of 231 . for 357s i have used the hollow bast wadcutters loaded backwards over a load of 2400 thay open up to the size of a nickle both of these stops a arugment fast if you use the 38 wc in a stubby use bullseye

A test media that I use is the standard metal can full of dry sand... I figure what the body size of the critter is and divide that by 1/3 and use that size can... If my cast bullet load will penetrate said can with sand it has so far not failed to exit hunted critter. Deer are thicker so I use a gallon plastic jug wrapped in sheet metal but fire on the thick side... To simulate a shoulder shot duct tape a 2x4 to the near side . If you envision two shoulders add another 2x4 to the back... seems to simulate and is not real hard to make or costly. Water filled cans can also substitue.. but with sand I do not get everything wet... and with water you need to use bigger of containers. But if you go water add food coloring... much more vision impressive.

Hmmm, I really can't see how sand can be compared to flesh, for that matter I had an argument w/ a technician at barnes one time. I called them to see what their test media was, the gentleman, (hmmm), that I spoke w/ said it was a 500 gallon tank of water. I explained my dilemma at the time and he took no short cuts in belittling me and hanging up. My problem at the time was in utilizing the barnes x-bullet on game. I tried all kinds of test media and for the 338 I had it really liked the 185gr xbullet loaded to the hilt, tried the 225's but couldn't get the accuracy or expansion I desired. The problem with the 185's was close range the petals broke off, much past 100 they wouldn't even open up, at 100yds they looked like a little umbrella, beyond 200 there was No/ Zip/Zero/ Noughtta expansion. After shooting a deer at ~420 I gave up on the xbullets all together, might as well have used military ball. Seems like water can be an alright medium but it is important what the container is. The only way we could get the federal 230 hydra shocks to open up out a 5" was to pull the bullets load em up hotter then shoot into mud or sand at point blank range, 3-5 ft, much too hard of media to resemble flesh, (i am amazed that so many gun writers still speak highly of them???)
The other day I was playing around with a new companion and loaded up some pure lead. I haven't ever seen such a pretty mushroom before. It just kept rolling back, the mushroom was just slightly below the base of the Gas Check, diameter was 180% weight retention was 96%. I tried jacketed rounds and didn't get anything nearly as perfect as that.
It doesn't take much to punch through a deer, especially using hard cast, but I am just amazed how the right velocity and treating of dropped lead can yield such great results and at a fraction of the expense of manufacturers retail. I got one now that probably won't ever taste copper anymore, unless it's free, lol.

I remember years ago some local archers took a longbow and a cedar arrow, and cut the tip off of the arrow, and although I can't recall how far they were from their target, it was an old steel 5 gallon bucket full of wet sand. Anyway, they shot the arrow with a flat plain shaft arrow through the bucket. They then attempted to do the same with a factory loaded 30-06 at the same distance and the bullet would not pass through.

Wet sand is tough!

LOL, got in a discussion with a guy recently about bow and arrow vs propellant powered. I agree bow and arrow are a very effective hunting technique. I have seen some bow kills where the animal dropped on the spot, a spine shot and one thru the front shoulder, weird, but the camera didn't lie. Anybody wearing a bullet proof vest knows they have more to fear from an arrow then a standard pistol round. One of the main differences is shock, shoot a bucket of sand with an arrow then with a suitable rifle, the arrow 'may' penetrate further but there will be less sand in the bucket after the rifle shot. One shot kills with a rifle far exceed that with a bow since a bow kills primarily due to hemorhage and a rifle kills by hemorhage and, (depending on distance & velocity), shock as well. I have seen first hand a couple 'grazing shots that did no damage to any vitals or skeletal structure either knock the animal out cold or kill it. I prefer cartridges because I prefer the reloading aspect of them, getting a rifle, making it shoot well with the best performing round I can find and test. (Bow being similar but not having the range of a rifle I think it is less or at least different). When I harvest something I cant wait to see how the bullet performed at whatever distance the shot was made at. :-D

SAND... I was just answering the question.. What media do I use.. Beach type sand is easy... lies about where I shoot... and repeatable... If I want flesh I can buy a goat for $5... Maybe sand in a can or gallon jug is not the best choice... but I like it.

I shoot into snow!!.I shoot into hard packed snow from my plow,in my yard.Its safe as i have no neighbors,and all woods.I pack it good and let the rounds fly.I keep a detialed map of what rounds i shot,what cal.,and powder.you would be amaised at how well the snow shows in bullet preformance.Been doing it for a few years now.The only draw back is that you have to wait for spring,or a good melt.When i am in a hurry i have a torpido type heater and the heat melts the snow pretty fast.Pistol cal.penitrate mush less then rifle.Try it if you can do so safely.pan.

We have only had 2.5" of snow this year in 3 storms. Not enough to make a snow ball for a BB gun, but than, I haven't used a shovel yet either.