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While doing some "continuing ed" reading I came across a suggestion by messengers Speer that your shell holder should be the same brand as the dies. They gave a pretty well thought out analysis of the reason and I wanted to know what you all think.
Attachment 281 Rabbits, rabbits, and more rabbits.
While there may indeed be some logical arguments supporting the notion, I think it's a load of fresh fertilizer.
I did not arrive at this conclusion without quite a bit of thought and actual experimenting.
Each of my presses has its own set of common shell holders, and the dies that are used with each press are set up to them. For instance, I use my RC for full length sizing and every FL die that uses the same shell holders are set up to that specific holder. Like wise all the other dies and my turret press. I used to keep one shell holder with each die set and still do with oddball sizes, with the FL sizers set up with that shell holder in the RC and the rest set using it in the turret. In my spare shell holder stash I have all the repeats by many different makers. If you dig into it and take out all the matching ones by different manufacturers and separate them, a few minutes with a mic will show you that the critical measurement between the bottom of the holder that rests on the bottom of the slot in the ram and the bottom of the slot in the holder where the cases rest varies by the same amounts, between .002-.005", regardless of which company made them. To reiterate: all of the shell holders fell within the same tolerance range with both max and min examples regardless of manufacturer. From this, rightly or wrongly, I deduced that it is much more critical to use the same shell holder in the same press with the same dies each time than it is to match manufacturers.
Does it make sense that I can confidently switch back and forth between two shell holders with .005" variance just because both are made by the same company that made the dies? I do not think so. I set my dies up to use with the same press and the same shell holder each time.
I am equally sure that each different manufacturer would prefer we all used the same brand of dies, press, and shell holder - theirs. And also that we keep things color coordinated and buy their trimmer, powder measure, scale, tumbler, etc., while we're shopping too. I am not that brand loyal and have tools from many different makers on my bench. I am however, in all honesty, brand disloyal in that there are two companies whose products I will not buy - one for its extremely poor quality, and the other for its habit of many years of copying other's designs as soon as the patents expire (and also for the over-engineering of its loading dies with tiny useless SHARP parts and excessively protruding decapper stem that has necessitated two trips to the ER for stitches so far). I am having trouble finding a reloader I dislike enough to make a gift of them to as I will never use them again after I rechamber the barrel. I do however reuse the red boxes their woefully inaccurate bullets come in, relabeled, for my cast rifle bullets, but I reuse all jacketed bullet boxes anyway so I'm conferring no favor upon them in particular.
Gee Versfier, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!:wink:
:coffee:
All the shell holder does is hold the shell. Some are thicker than others, but in all cases, the sizing die comes down to "kiss" the case. A specific maker's shell holder may be "superior" in being thinner so the sizer comes down lower, but it would be "superior" no matter what the brand of sizing die is. The rest of the dies don't even, normally, contact the shell holder so that would be a non-issue.
I can think of no reason a shell holder from maker A would be best for ONLY maker A's dies.
PS: if versifier is referring to Lee or Hornady, I would be happy to take any dies off his hands (for free, as I am retired and poor) as I find them to be as good as any and better than the rest I have tried. If the sizing die problem is the decapper stem sticking out too far, one can file or saw off the excess--though that is not a way I have found to injure myself yet.
I can see Versifiers point of view. I like that Lee gives you a free shell holder with their dyes. I also like Lee in that their shell holders are a nominal $3.98. Unlike Rcbs who charges $9.98 for their shell holders and theirs will only fit 2-3 calibers, where Lee will fit several cal. Rcbs has fallen in love with their superior brand and the consumer gets in the shorts with every buy. I use to have all Rcbs and now have all Lee products and I find that both do the job and no advantage paying the big bucks to Rcbs. Lee will replace their decapper pin free of charge if you send them the broken one. This I know as I returned my broken decapper from doing 2000 shells and a lot of them military shells. I know that Redding is very expensed and Hornady the same, hence I have none of them. Lyman sent me two primers cutters after I wrote them about the one I used went away at about 20 shells. They were military with the double crimp.. I still think the cutters should be made of carbide, but no one listens.
I was not referring to Lee dies when I went on my "anti-red" rant. I really like Lee dies, especially their collet sizers and factory crimps. I have had them make me several custom collet and FC dies for wildcats and am very happy with them.
I have the above-mentioned and cursed-at set of Hornady 6.5TCU dies that I will gladly sell, but only to someone I don't like. Because whomever gets them will not want anything more to do with me after first use (and possible/probable/optional trip to the ER for stitches). I will not donate them to you, noylj, I like you and would not wish these dies from hell on you or any other friend. (Unless you REALLY REALLY need a set of 6.5TCU's and you sign a Hold Harmless Agreement to free me of all liability for the injuries the carnivorous things may/can/will inflict on you.) The threaded decapper rod is hardened and no saw I own will touch it. Maybe the dremel with a cutoff wheel would do the trick, but I will not use the set again regardless, and I will never buy another die set from them. The next oddball set I need I will have Lee make them custom (including custom collet & fc dies), and they will STILL be cheaper than a new set of Whorenadys. Never mind what I will save on ER fees. :)
I use the same brand shellholder as the dies. Do I have to? I really do not think so.
This is a very interesting thread! I have to agree with all of you who think matching shell holders to dies is bunk! I'm done! Thanks for the good read!
BB
I have never given a second thought about mixing brands of dies vs shell holders.
I'm with you Clayt. This is the first time I've ever heard it discussed actually.
BB
If it had been in a die or shell holder mfgr's book I wouldn't have paid it any attention but it was Speer. I guess you could say that is related to the Rock Chuck Bullet Swage folks.
Since they are both divisions of the same company, no, it's not at all surprising. If I were selling shell holders for $10 apiece I would be pushing the theory too. Can't blame them for trying to make a buck I guess, even if I won't swallow it myself. Something has to pay for the best customer service in the industry.