Source of Tin to Improve Wheel Weights

New member and first post. Did a lot of casting and reloading 40 years ago and now have plenty of time and the equipment to renew the hobby in retirement. I have lots of linotype and access to free wheelweights. My intended alloy is 4% antimony, 2% tin and 94% lead for 38/357 and 9MM mid-range loads. I want to use the linotype sparingly so I intend to mix 10# WW with 1.75# Lino and 2oz. of extra tin.

I quickly found that alloys of tin are real expensive. But, at NAPA Auto parts I found solid core solder (Part# WLD 7771856) clearly advertized as 94.5/5.5 Tin/Antimony for $6.69 1lb. spool. I got two spools but I'm a firm beliver in if it looks to good to be true..... NAPA Part# WLD 7771864 is a 1 lb spool of solid core 94.5/5.5 Tin/Antimony billed as Lead Free for $43.99 a spool.

Did I buy a pig in a poke? I have not mixed any alloy yet.

Welcome to the Guide Ed.

You found yourself a good source of needed alloying metals, but how good a deal you got on it I couldn't say. Yard sale solder and old pewter are my two favorite sources of tin. I use WW's as a basis for most of my alloys, hard chilled shot as an antimony source when necessary, and old flashing and plumbing for pure lead. I have never had to buy any of it retail.

IME there is no real need of more than a trace amount (1%) of antimony in handgun bullets and no need of more than 3% tin. Any more of either just wastes hard to find and/or expensive alloys. The only time you really need antimony is when you want your bullets hard, and handgun bullets if they are properly sized do not need to be hard and in fact obturate better and perform better when they are as soft as practicable. Save your lino for when you need the antimony. (I will say that certain semi auto pistols do prefer harder bullets to overcome feeding issues. Usually these issues can be fixed with a dremel tool, but some prefer not to work on their pistols and try to overcome their problems with harder alloys. YMMV. .40 & 10mm Glocks need very hard bullets if you want to shoot cast in factory barrels so their polygonal rifling doesn't lead up disasterously, too.)

My lino is reserved exclusively for rifle target bullets, and even in them I cut it at least by half with pure lead. These bullets in .22 through .30 caliber can easily stand the rotational energies of being pushed well over 2000fps without stripping or leading. If I wanted them even harder I would heat treat them after sizing, and the amount of antimony in that alloy is enough to enable it nicely. I also mix up my own version of lino using what I have available to get the relative percentages roughly correct.

My standard handgun alloy for .30, 9mm/.380, .38/.357, .44, and .45ACP bullets is one part WW's to four parts pure lead. I get no leading in my pistols and revolvers with this mix, even with hot loads in the .357mag, but I am careful to size them correctly. Hard bullets obturate poorly and in combination with the undersized commercial offerings available today gas cut and fill up barrels with lead fouling quickly.

For gas checked .357 and .44mag hunting bullets I use 1/2WW's 1/2 pure lead. This lets me push them to MAX levels without exceeding the strength of the alloy.

Rifle hunting bullets I cast from straight WW's - soft enough to get good expansion but hard enough not to strip in hotter loadings. I will add a bit of extra tin to this mix if I am having fillout problems with certain moulds.

Thanks for the good advice.

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Originally Posted by Ed_Shot

New member and first post. Did a lot of casting and reloading 40 years ago and now have plenty of time and the equipment to renew the hobby in retirement. I have lots of linotype and access to free wheelweights. My intended alloy is 4% antimony, 2% tin and 94% lead for 38/357 and 9MM mid-range loads. I want to use the linotype sparingly so I intend to mix 10# WW with 1.75# Lino and 2oz. of extra tin.

I quickly found that alloys of tin are real expensive. But, at NAPA Auto parts I found solid core solder (Part# WLD 7771856) clearly advertized as 94.5/5.5 Tin/Antimony for $6.69 1lb. spool. I got two spools but I'm a firm beliver in if it looks to good to be true..... NAPA Part# WLD 7771864 is a 1 lb spool of solid core 94.5/5.5 Tin/Antimony billed as Lead Free for $43.99 a spool.

Did I buy a pig in a poke? I have not mixed any alloy yet.

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yes i think its a pig in a poke .. i bought 2 of them and only the advertizing on line describe the content ... its soft and bends easily , tin is harder and is more brittle ..also tin is whiter in color than this was , maybe old? 94.5/4.5 i dont think so, but im sure there is some tin , so not a total loss .. i use just clip on lead ww on all my magnum handgun loads , seem to shoot real good in my 454 casull down to my 357 mag, no major leading .. i think accuracy could be a little better at higher velocity .. i cast hot lead bullets dropped into a 5 gal bucket with a wet cloth floating in it to save on dents in the bullet seems to work great ..

95/5 solder.

Is the stuff you got from NAPA still $6.69?? That is less than spot price!!

SHiloh

yes it is a pig in a poke. look on the back this is lead solder ,the websight listed it wrong.

As for casting metals, I've had more trouble finding pure lead and soft alloys than hard. I've gotten alot of old 50\50 and60\40 solder at garage sales. Usually it's in a box of junk. If you pick it out and ask "how much?' it's usually more than the whole box. It used to be I could get free wheel weights, now everybody I ask wants money for them. I hope I've got enough. I should have gotten more when they were free.[smilie=b:

Anyone use this solder with pure lead? if so how many lbs to lbs of lead for 45 acp 230 gr.

Welcome to The Guide, Jeff.

You really need something with at least a little bit of antimony to get enough workable hardenss, but if you absolutely had to, maybe you could do something with 5-6% tin, but I have really never experimented with just a lead/tin mix as tin doesn't really harden things up much, just improves fillout. If you did, it might be workable at the starting load level, but that is really unknown territory for me. Maybe others can give you some useful input.

Here's my allow FWIW. I use ten pounds of Wheel weights, one pound of linotype a three foot piece of 95/5 percent lead free solder and one-third cup of magnum bird shot. (Shot is optional but necessary if you want to water drop and get really hard bullets.) That solder is 95 percent tin, the other 5 percent can be silver or copper. I prefer the silver but either will work. Lino already has a decent amount of tin but as today's wheelweight don't have as much as those made years ago, I add the lead fee solder to make up the difference and the mix casts very nicesly. The shot (magnum or chilled) should 7 1/2 or SMALLER. The smaller the shot the greater the amount of arsenic. Arsenic in the allow will cause water dropped lead bullets to become harder than an IRS collection agent's heart. Water dropped can gain up tp 20/21 BHN from the 12/14 BHN from air cooled bullets. If you bake thm in an oven for an hour or more at about 425 degrees, then water drop them, you can go as high as 32/33 BHN. But it takes that arsenic in the shot to make that happen. Bullets will age harden in about two to three weeks but wiill already be quite hard right from the water.
Paul B.

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Originally Posted by Paul B

Here's my allow FWIW. I use ten pounds of Wheel weights, one pound of linotype a three foot piece of 95/5 percent lead free solder and one-third cup of magnum bird shot. (Shot is optional but necessary if you want to water drop and get really hard bullets.) That solder is 95 percent tin, the other 5 percent can be silver or copper. I prefer the silver but either will work. Lino already has a decent amount of tin but as today's wheelweight don't have as much as those made years ago, I add the lead fee solder to make up the difference and the mix casts very nicesly. The shot (magnum or chilled) should 7 1/2 or SMALLER. The smaller the shot the greater the amount of arsenic. Arsenic in the allow will cause water dropped lead bullets to become harder than an IRS collection agent's heart. Water dropped can gain up tp 20/21 BHN from the 12/14 BHN from air cooled bullets. If you bake thm in an oven for an hour or more at about 25 degrees, then water drop them, you can go as high as 32/33 BHN. But it takes that arsenic in the shot to make that happen. Bullets will age harden in about two to three weeks but wiill already be quite hard right from the water.
Paul B.

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ummm whilst i agree with what you posted ( even tho i use the shot smelted into lead bars first lolz ) this part i know is a unintentional typo " If you bake thm in an oven for an hour or more at about 25 degrees " because 25 degrees right now would feel about mitey fine ( and we'll have that temp in about six months as we always get the weather we want ... about six months after we want it lolz ) but i'm not so heavy handed that i'll fix it without asking so ...you want me too ? lolz

That's what happens when you type with two blind fingers. It should be 425 degrees. The reason for only 1/3 cup of the shot is because it only takes a very small amount of arsenic to be the catalyst for making the bullets hard. IIRC, it's something like .05 percent. More won't make much difference just like too much tin won't help the alloy. That's what, one or two percent tin tops?
Paul B.

three sore fingers and both my left thumbs :P , in the interest of the thread i'll make it right so it doesnt confuse anyone , i agree it doesnt take alot of arsenic , i just make bars of old lead shot and then use as needed in my alloys ( it can even be the "cheaper" corroded looking kind ;) as it looks good to go after smelting and breaking up all that shot sometimes can be fun ) as for the tin ...[shrugz] hard to say exactly without knowing what mite be in any ww mixed with it , the lino is a lil tin rich tho and that helps ( as well as more antimony !! ) i've cast more than a few 45 acp plinkers from 50/50 ww/pb with no added tin , some i've heat treated some i havent , if one of my #'s of pb is lead shot they always come out harder ( but it too adds a skosh of antimony )

It's interesting to compare wheel weights then and wheel weights now.Back aound 1973, i made a huge purchase of raw wheel weights and I still have about 25 pounds of them left. Just for splits and grins, I cast a few SAECO #068 bullets from those old weights and them drained the pot and cast a few with metal fron current wheel weights. I let them age harden for a month and then used my LBT tester to see if there was any difference in the hardness. There was. The 1973 issue weights ran from 13 to 14 on the BHN scale while current weight ran from 8 to 10 on the scale. My alloy runs quite close to that 1973 weights and either is suitable for full power 30-30 loads. I'm thinking current weights would be just a bit too soft for that level of loads in the 30-30.
A while back I was given about 200 pounds of what was purported to be cleaned wheel weights that were molded in one of those corn bread molds. I ran up a bunch of bullets for several of my handguns and on a hunch decided to spot check a few for hardness. Average BHN reading was 6. Some were at 5 and a few were as high as 7 on the scale. Methinks they were more pure lead than weights. The guy also gave me about 100 pounds of pure lead and a full bucket of raw weights that I have yet to clean.
I'll have to get off the stick and git-r-done one of these days but right now it's too darn hot.
Paul B.

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I quickly found that alloys of tin are real expensive.

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Depends if you know where to buy it .... Tin, 99.9 pure, ten bucks a pound
John Walters
405-799-0376
thetinwadman@cox.net

John has been in business for years and has an excellent reputation with the BPCR folks

Lyman alloy # 2 look in the lyman book for it that's all I use for my center fire.