Rookie reloader looking guidance and advice

[61landshark]

I believe in getting right to the point so here it is. I am getting ready to start reloading for the first time and and I have been doing a lot of reading on the difference between 223 and 556 and it seems the more I read the more confused I get. I have 2000/556 and 1000/223 fired once casings I want to reload. I am looking for a good reloading manual that can guide me threw reloading process. Any advice or instructions will be appreciated.

Here is what I'm thinking

55gr FMJ BT
Varget Powder

Can I use this combination with both the 556 and 223 casings?

[Mike in tx]

Welcome to the board. While we are few in numbers there is a lot of experience here and great company. One of the best manuals is Lyman but do get others. Varget is a good powder to start with for the 223. As for the 5.56 and 223 interchangablity, IIRC 5.56 should not be shot in a 223 chamber but others will chime in if I am wrong so please do not take this as gospel.

[SkyKid]

Yes you can use both cases if you are shooting them in an AR or any bolt or semi chambered for 5.56 round
The military cases usually have thicker walls than commercial cases
I would keep them separated
you might have to use a grain or 2 less in the military cases
Welcome to the board [smilie=s:

[versifier]

Welcome to The Guide.

You need to begin with three current manuals. Why three? Every lab uses different components and test firearms and results vary between them. Take the combination you suggested: the only common component from manual to manual is the powder. Each lab will be using a different brand of the same weight bullet, a different brand of case, and a different primer. So you open up all three and see what they say. All three may be in close agreement, but what if they are not? (Not even considering the occasional transcription error in the printed charge tables.) Sometimes one set of numbers differs from the other two by quite a lot. Then you can safely rely on the other two for a good place to begin. What if you only had one manual and it was the one with the suspect data but because you only had that one you did not realize it? Three or more CURRENT manuals are the best deal on life insurance you will ever find. Never even consider any data from any source without checking it in all of your manuals. And update them as new editions are published. Components change over time, new ones appear on the market.

Each manual will explain the loading process in a slightly different way. Read them all, even if you are sure you understood the first one. The differences in techniques will make you think and generate some good questions. Lyman, Sierra, Lee, Speer, Nosler (and even Hornady) all have good comprehensive manuals. Some have data mostly for their own bullets though most of it is bullet weight, not brand, specific and can be safely applied to other brands of the same weight. Brand specific data is helpful for determining the OAL to begin with for a specific specialty bullet, like for instance Sierra's MatchKing target bullets. RCBS and Sierra have some great reloading videos which I have watched that will be a big help, too.

It is always easiest to learn hands-on from someone who knows, but that may not be an option for you where you are. It wasn't for me and I had to learn it all on my own from books with the internet twenty years in the future. These days I give loading courses here, but it is a bit of a drive to NH from WA....

There is no real difference between most .223 and 5.56 brass, regardless of its headstamp. The caution about mil brass applies primarily to .308 and .30-06 brass, but you do on rare occasions get some foreign .223/5.56 brass that is a bit thicker and some that is thinner. A smart reloader (i.e. one that lives long enough to learn and pass on the skill) checks the weights of several cases in a lot to double check regardless of its source. Any time you are unsure about ANYTHING, ASK and MEASURE until you are sure and confident about what you are doing. Clearly you have learned this lesson, but it is one we must keep reminding ourselves of constantly for all the years ahead of stuffing cases. We only get one big mistake. The idea is NOT TO MAKE IT.

The real difference between .223 and 5.56 is in the loads and the chambers. Back in the day all .223's and their military equivalent used a 55gr bullet at a standard Cartridge Over-All Length (aka COAL or OAL). In civilian life the .223 was and is mostly a varmint round, so nothing there really changed. However, the 5.56 (new name for the mil round when it began to be adopted first by NATO allies then by other countries) was deemed to be underpowered with the 55gr bullet and the bullet's weight was increased by around 15grs to better put down the larger two-legged varmints. When they did this, due to the small capacity of the case they had two choices: They could either keep the same OAL and sacrifice powder capacity and velocity, or increase the OAL and not sacrifice any power. They went with the second option. This meant increasing the leade (throat, or bullet jump) of the military chambers. The potential problem arose when one wanted to fire a 5.56 mil round with those new longer bullets in a civilian .223 chamber. Most .223 chambers were generous enough to cause no troubles, but there were (and are) a few rifles out there with very short throats and when you cram that longer and heavier bullet right into the lands and pull the trigger it creates a pressure spike. How big a spike depends on the actual dimensional measurements of both the round and the chamber and how they compare to each other. Mostly it's a non-issue as pretty much all commercial .223 chambers are now cut with enough room in them for liability concerns, but it's always a smart idea to check the chamber of any .223/5.56 regardless of what is stamped onto the barrel, especially the older ones. You do this by making a dummy round from a full length sized case with no primer in it. Seat a 55gr bullet way out too long and ease it into the chamber until it stops. Remove it then seat it a hair deeper and keep doing this until the action closes properly. Then compare the length at that point to the standard. It will be instantly apparent what kind of chamber you have to work with.

It is fair to note that in all my years of loading I have only come upon one .223 with a chamber that was too short for a modern mil round, out of hundreds that have come through my hands. Shooter next to me at the range says: "Hmmm. The action won't close on these #&@$ing cheap mil rounds. WTF?" He had an older AR, but if he'd had a bolt action with its greater mechanical advantage in chambering he probably would have had a nasty accident. And I was more than close enough to have been in shrapnel range. I checked the ammo and the rifle and figured it out for him, but I was really surprised. One of the other shooters there who had a bunch of 55gr surp ammo simply traded with him and everybody was happy. And they left all of their brass for me, so I was happy too.

[61landshark]

Thank you for spelling it out for me. I must have read at least 20 articles on the differences between .223 and 5.56. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me and I think I am ready to take the next step. Buy the manuals! I got on Amazon and I found the manuals you mentioned but I was surprised by how many editions there were for each manual. I will be purchasing three manuals. Do you have a preference for a certain edition on a specific manual you like to recommend to start my reloading manual collection?




Welcome to The Guide.

You need to begin with three current manuals. Why three? Every lab uses different components and test firearms and results vary between them. Take the combination you suggested: the only common component from manual to manual is the powder. Each lab will be using a different brand of the same weight bullet, a different brand of case, and a different primer. So you open up all three and see what they say. All three may be in close agreement, but what if they are not? (Not even considering the occasional transcription error in the printed charge tables.) Sometimes one set of numbers differs from the other two by quite a lot. Then you can safely rely on the other two for a good place to begin. What if you only had one manual and it was the one with the suspect data but because you only had that one you did not realize it? Three or more CURRENT manuals are the best deal on life insurance you will ever find. Never even consider any data from any source without checking it in all of your manuals. And update them as new editions are published. Components change over time, new ones appear on the market.

Each manual will explain the loading process in a slightly different way. Read them all, even if you are sure you understood the first one. The differences in techniques will make you think and generate some good questions. Lyman, Sierra, Lee, Speer, Nosler (and even Hornady) all have good comprehensive manuals. Some have data mostly for their own bullets though most of it is bullet weight, not brand, specific and can be safely applied to other brands of the same weight. Brand specific data is helpful for determining the OAL to begin with for a specific specialty bullet, like for instance Sierra's MatchKing target bullets. RCBS and Sierra have some great reloading videos which I have watched that will be a big help, too.

It is always easiest to learn hands-on from someone who knows, but that may not be an option for you where you are. It wasn't for me and I had to learn it all on my own from books with the internet twenty years in the future. These days I give loading courses here, but it is a bit of a drive to NH from WA....

There is no real difference between most .223 and 5.56 brass, regardless of its headstamp. The caution about mil brass applies primarily to .308 and .30-06 brass, but you do on rare occasions get some foreign .223/5.56 brass that is a bit thicker and some that is thinner. A smart reloader (i.e. one that lives long enough to learn and pass on the skill) checks the weights of several cases in a lot to double check regardless of its source. Any time you are unsure about ANYTHING, ASK and MEASURE until you are sure and confident about what you are doing. Clearly you have learned this lesson, but it is one we must keep reminding ourselves of constantly for all the years ahead of stuffing cases. We only get one big mistake. The idea is NOT TO MAKE IT.

The real difference between .223 and 5.56 is in the loads and the chambers. Back in the day all .223's and their military equivalent used a 55gr bullet at a standard Cartridge Over-All Length (aka COAL or OAL). In civilian life the .223 was and is mostly a varmint round, so nothing there really changed. However, the 5.56 (new name for the mil round when it began to be adopted first by NATO allies then by other countries) was deemed to be underpowered with the 55gr bullet and the bullet's weight was increased by around 15grs to better put down the larger two-legged varmints. When they did this, due to the small capacity of the case they had two choices: They could either keep the same OAL and sacrifice powder capacity and velocity, or increase the OAL and not sacrifice any power. They went with the second option. This meant increasing the leade (throat, or bullet jump) of the military chambers. The potential problem arose when one wanted to fire a 5.56 mil round with those new longer bullets in a civilian .223 chamber. Most .223 chambers were generous enough to cause no troubles, but there were (and are) a few rifles out there with very short throats and when you cram that longer and heavier bullet right into the lands and pull the trigger it creates a pressure spike. How big a spike depends on the actual dimensional measurements of both the round and the chamber and how they compare to each other. Mostly it's a non-issue as pretty much all commercial .223 chambers are now cut with enough room in them for liability concerns, but it's always a smart idea to check the chamber of any .223/5.56 regardless of what is stamped onto the barrel, especially the older ones. You do this by making a dummy round from a full length sized case with no primer in it. Seat a 55gr bullet way out too long and ease it into the chamber until it stops. Remove it then seat it a hair deeper and keep doing this until the action closes properly. Then compare the length at that point to the standard. It will be instantly apparent what kind of chamber you have to work with.

It is fair to note that in all my years of loading I have only come upon one .223 with a chamber that was too short for a modern mil round, out of hundreds that have come through my hands. Shooter next to me at the range says: "Hmmm. The action won't close on these #&@$ing cheap mil rounds. WTF?" He had an older AR, but if he'd had a bolt action with its greater mechanical advantage in chambering he probably would have had a nasty accident. And I was more than close enough to have been in shrapnel range. I checked the ammo and the rifle and figured it out for him, but I was really surprised. One of the other shooters there who had a bunch of 55gr surp ammo simply traded with him and everybody was happy. And they left all of their brass for me, so I was happy too.

[61landshark]

Thanks for warm welcome. I will be getting the manuals. I bought all my reloading equipment and sounds like I should have bought the manuals first.

Thanks for feedback

[61landshark]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I will definitely be separating the .223 and 5.56 casing and reading the Manuals.

Thanks for the feedback

[Hellrazor]

Here are some of the more popular online reloading stores -

http://www.natchezss.com/
http://www.midwayusa.com/
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/
https://www.grafs.com/
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

Beware of buying primers/powder online because of the hazmat shipping fee of $28.50. Either make a big purchase or buy locally.

Do you know anyone locally who reloads? Having a local mentor to show you the ropes is a good way to start. There are a lot of reloading videos on youtube also.

What reloading press did you buy?

[versifier]

Separate all your rifle cases by headstamp anyway. Different manufacturers and different lots from the same manufacturer can vary and should be boxed and handled separately. A good scale will tell you what you need to know. With rifle cases you need to keep track of how many times loaded, FL sized, trimmed. I highly recommend keeping a loading log with good notes in case the label falls off the cartridge box or you discover a problem.

The edition of any manual to buy is the LATEST ONE.

Older ones are for collecting (or for when you come upon a supply of a discontinued powder). Components change over time, powder formulations get upgraded without changing their names/numbers. New cartridges are always coming on the market. My favorite manuals are Lyman and Sierra. Lee doesn't have their own ballistics lab but prints good data from many sources.

Powder companies also release data yearly (usually free) but it is often limited as to the choice of cartridges, not an issue if you're loading the more popular cartridges, which you will be to start out.

Sierra's tech line (1.800.223-8799 or Sierra@sierrabullets.com) will answer just about any question you might have about loads for their bullets or anyone else's, including for a lot of obsolete and wildcat cartridges that you won't find data for anywhere else.

[61landshark]

I have been looking for a mentor, but so far I haven't gotten any volunteers. I think that might change after the holidays. I know what you mean hazmat charge. I got the Lee Precision breach lock press mostly because of the reviews. I started watching youtube videos but I learned not all the people that make videos on youtube know what their doing. Is there a video on youtube you would recommend I watch?

Again thanks for the feedback




Here are some of the more popular online reloading stores -

http://www.natchezss.com/
http://www.midwayusa.com/
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/
https://www.grafs.com/
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

Beware of buying primers/powder online because of the hazmat shipping fee of $28.50. Either make a big purchase or buy locally.

Do you know anyone locally who reloads? Having a local mentor to show you the ropes is a good way to start. There are a lot of reloading videos on youtube also.

What reloading press did you buy?

[Hellrazor]

Some of the manufacturers have videos posted on their websites too. I am not familiar with that press other than its a benchrest aka portable press.

http://leeprecision.com/help-videos.html
http://www.rcbs.com/resources/videos/

Post a list of gear you purchased and we can see what you are missing, really need or should consider buying.

[Mike in tx]

You never know what you will need. I have a Lee Hand Press, Lee Turret, RCBC Chucker and now a RCBS Summit. I gave a new reloader a RCBS JR 2. As for what is up north I will need to check. Why do I have them ???? I have 2 hands and 2 feet but am not coordinated enough to use all 4 at one time. I have dies for calibers that I will never load again or never loaded at all but might someday. I gave one electronic scale to my grandson so I have one now and 2 beam scales and a set of Lee Dippers. Do you really think that I triple check my powder? It is a hobby that can get out of control. I work for my hobby. LOL Once you are confident do NOT be afraid to try new, at least to you, toys.

[Hellrazor]

I have a bunch of stuff too. Just want to make sure he isn't missing any major steps.


Off the top of my head (large items only)
4 manual powder measures - 1 rcbs, 2 belding & mull, 1 hornady
1 rcbs digital powder measure/scale
2 beam scales
Rockchucker and Lock-n-load presses
2 brass trimmers
1 vibrating tumbler
1 sonic cleaner

[Kirbydoc]

Another little item. .223 Remington specs and max pressure are from SAAMI (Sporting Arms And Manufacturers Institute) and 5.56 mm specs are from NATO. .223 Remington max pressure is 50,000 CUP and 5.56 mm is spec'd at a max pressure of 60,000 CUP according to several sources. Things changed when NATO got hold of that round. Chambers for .223 are usually (but not always) shorter too. A Wylde chamber would get the .223 to a length to handle the 77 gr. bullets used in some 5.56 loads. Some of this I know, some is from other sources so take with a grain of salt.

[versifier]

I just came upon an article yesterday in the January '15 GUNS mag that has a lot more detailed explanation about the 5.56/.223 differences and much about it that I didn't know. The article is in the "UP on AR's" column by Glen Zedicker and is titled "Chamber Choices". It is quite an eye-opener and should be required reading for anyone who loads the 5.56/.223, us old farts included. I thought I knew a good bit about it when I wrote the above post, now after reading it I know a good bit more. Glen does his research carefully and he's one of the few current gunwriters that I have never caught in a serious error in all the years I've been reading his work. I wish I could say the same of most of GUNS' other staff writers, but less than half of them make the cut. Still, there are at least two and sometimes four good articles in every issue that I learn something useful from. That, American Rifleman, and GUN TESTS are the only three I still get. (And I'd have given up on AR years ago but as a Life Member I get it free.)

[BBerguson]

With technology available like FaceTime, it would be pretty easy for most of us to "sit" with you and show you some things first hand. Seeing a video is one thing, watching, doing and being able to ask questions while you do it is entirely different. Do you have an iPad?

BB

[Kirbydoc]

We only get one big mistake. The idea is NOT TO MAKE IT.

If you have a weak stomach, skip this.

In relation to what Vers said,
this is about 10-15 years back.
An experienced reloader and gun magazine contributor went to his private range not too far from his home to test some rifle loads. After several hours when he did not return someone went looking for him. He was found lying on his shooting bench where an apparent overload had driven the bolt from the rifle backwards shearing the locking lugs off and sending it out of the gun through his eye and brain.
Just supposition but I would guess he tested several hot loads for an article and the bolt lugs finally had enough.

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