Why am i having failures to extract?

[birddseedd]

Why am i having failures to extract?

9mm, caste bullets, dillon progressive press.

thanks

[versifier]

If it has become a constant problem, it's likely not because of the ammo. In general, overcharged cases can cause sticky extraction, but semi pistol cartridge pressures are not usually up high enough that that is a concern. Not to say that it can't be caused by powder bridging (overcharge preceded by an undercharge) or telescoping when feeding from too light a crimp as both can cause nasty pressure spikes. But they are not common causes of FTE. (Feeding issues, OTOH are usually ammo related.) Sometimes FTE will also happen to an excessively dirty pistol. A squib load (undercharged) can also have the appearance of doing it when the charge is not enough to overcome slide spring tension and the pistol after firing appears to have returned to battery but remains uncocked. Opening the action reveals an empty fired case.

I would look to mechanical issues. First I would check out the pistol's extractor. It could be broken or just not functioning correctly for a number of reasons. That's a fairly common problem and the most likely culprit. Not knowing the model and if it has any particular quirks itself makes it kinda hard, but regardless of the model pistol, extractors are small parts that can break or get all gummed up to the point of uselessness from powder residue or other gunk. Sometimes they are "helped" by springs, which can also break inside where you can't see, leaving a normal looking extractor that doesn't function correctly. More than once I have had to deal with that and there are probably a few new dirty words in the language because of it.

A careful and thorough cleaning is the first step and a spray solvent applied with a tiny straw attached to the sprayer (a la aerosol WD40, but one should NEVER EVER use WD40 on a handgun). That should dissolve and blow out any dirt or gunk and with any luck may be all you need to do to fix it. (If nothing else, a complete cleaning will make working on it by you or your gunsmith a much more pleasant experience.) If a good cleaning doesn't work and there is no obvious visible problem, a bit more disassembly of extractor and spring might be necessary to see if there is internal damage. That may or may not be something the home gunsmith can handle depending on the kind of pistol and how the slide is put together, and also how mechanically inclined you are. If you do take things apart, take photos of each step so you can see how it goes back together. It may save you a trip to the gunsmith with a box of parts and the telltale "can-you-put-this-thing-back-together-again-for-me?" smile. Exploded parts diagrams are great for disassembly, but they are not always as helpful sometimes when putting things back together. We all have to learn that one from experience. [smilie=1: I have been told (but I do not know how true it is) that Ruger has a special department dedicated to reassembling customers' MKII and MKIII pistols that get sent back to the factory by their frustrated owners.

Please keep posting on this. I always learn more when my initial guesses are wrong. ;-) Just because it's a common problem doesn't mean I have found the actual cause.

[birddseedd]

Here is all the info i can think of.

hodgon hs7.

reloading guy at on target says 5.5 to 6.5 gn. I am at 6 gn. According to speer its 6.9 to 8.9 gn. Something doesnt seem right as that would overflow in the 9mm case.

124 and 125 gn cast bullets. the grove lube ones are a little bit on the short side. The tumble lube bullets are within the spechs for 9mm i found online. a little shorter than factory rounds, i cant really adjust those much as the crimp is right on the top groove.

FNS and S&W Shield. 1 mag ran perfect in some other S&W.

I am getting steady load drops from the dillon.

groove lube bullets are at 1.075, tumble lube are at 1.112. once through this batch i wont have any more groove lube rounds, half of the last groove line is showing above the crimp.

The crimp is exactly what my defense rounds are.

bullet dia is perfect

There were a few failure to feed. could be due to the short rounds? the only consistent failure was not ejecting, round pulled out of the chamber, just seemed to get stuck. was not "stove piped" stuck in the action.

cases tumbled in corn cob media

cases lubed by spraying them a time or two with lanolin alchoal and hand tumbling them.

i would say 1 in every 15 rounds didnt work.

ty for help

[versifier]

Charge ranges are different in every manual. Test guns are different, components are different, etc. And sometimes, very seldom but sometimes, whomever transcribes the numbers for input into a manual screws up. Humans make mistakes and some of those mistakes get published. It happens often enough that when manuals are updated the occasional error has to be corrected. Some manuals have more problems with this than others. That's why you need three current manuals for when two don't agree. Best deal on life insurance there is. Out of my four manuals, only Sierra lists HS-7 for 125 9x19 loads, at a charge range of 6.2-7.4max. It may be that you are a bit underpowered, though .2gr shouldn't be enough to cause problems. Up the charge a bit first to 6.2 then to 6.5 and see what happens. That would be the simplest fix if the charge weight is the problem, but I am still not convinced.

The fact that only one out of my four manuals lists that powder for that weight bullet tells me there may be better choices. I'm very partial to Unique in the 9x19 and I shoot the same TL bullets you are using in a dozen different pistols with acceptable results. Just a thought. It takes a lot of rounds to use up a pound of powder, but when you come to the end of your HS-7 you may consider trying it.

The shorter rounds you loaded aren't too short. With a taper crimp, they don't have to be right in the crimp groove as long as the bullet is held firmly enough that it can't move in the feeding cycle.

FTE in two pistols or just the S&W? I would think if the charge weight is too low I think you'd be getting many more FTE's, but from what you've told me that's the only thing I've noticed so far and it might be running right on the edge of functionality with the springs you have. That might explain the intermittent failures. Even so, I am still thinking the extractor may have some minor issue also because the problem is intermittent, and like I said it could be as simple a fix as cleaning out grit and gunk from around the extractor and making sure the extractor spring isn't broken or gummed up to dysfunction. A broken extractor would not eject at all, but one that is gummed up could cause the intermittency.

If neither a good cleaning nor upping the charge a tad bit cures it, my neighbor has a 9mm S&W Shield. If you like I will ask him if I can look it over and see if it gives me any ideas (if only to see how much of a job working on the extractor would be).

[birddseedd]

Thanks. Can you give me any advice on cleaning the extractor? Its a right space to get into. I put solvent on it And try to brush it with stiff paint brush. I never seem to get it perfectly clean.

Im hoping to do some more shooting today ill try to get some pics. Ill need to get some more primers before I can run a batch with a few more grains. Ill check that book out too. It sounds a bit more accurate than the others iv looked at

[versifier]

Any good solvent that comes in an aerosol can and has the little straw that attaches to the spray cap ought to work. Put the straw right on the edge of the extractor at one or more places and squirt some in, using the solvent itself to wash any dirt or gunk out.

If that doesn't work, try upping the powder charge before considering disassembly.

Just looking at the pistol it appears to be a simple disassembly to pull the extractor, but without the parts diagram to check for any hidden surprises I would not begin it. There is, for instance, a teeny tiny spring loaded doohickey under the rear sight in the dovetail that launches itself across the room and loses itself in the carpet when you drift the sight to remove and replace it. S&W customer service has plenty of them in stock and their rep that I spoke with has a sense of humor - I had the part within a week. I still don't know exactly what that part does. Who'd have thought you'd need the parts diagram to change a rear sight? I do not know if there is a similar spring loaded surprise cleverly hidden under the extractor, but I would be doing my homework first the next time I have to work on it. [smilie=1:

[Mongchi]

With a lite load and a loose grip your body, arms and hands can absorbe too much energy that is needed to cycle the gun. Did you work up your round to find what the gun likes?

[birddseedd]

Well. lube seems to be it. I ran some non lubed cases today, they worked perfectly. did feel rough running them through the press tho. so i need to find a different solution for lubing

[noylj]

When you pull the slide back, is the case extracted? If so, then the extractor is fine and it is your load.
Do factory loads extract? If so, then it is your load.
I show 5.6-6.4gn 571/HS7 for lead bullets. Guns vary. Work up to max load.

[birddseedd]

yea, it works fine otherwise.

i ran some loads at the same 6 gn, without lubing the cases, and they ran fine. i think i'm just getting lube in the case mouth which is causing it to not work.

[noylj]

Have never had any issue with lube on the case--it "should" ease extraction, if anything.
If you feel lube on the cases, you are over lubing those cases by quite a lot.
Do you lube due to steel rather than carbide sizing die or just for ease of sizing? For 9x19, all you need is lube at the bottom ½-⅓ of the case.
Best sizing die I have found for ease is the Hornady New Dimension TiN sizing dies, followed by Redding.

[birddseedd]

I have a dillon square deal b. the part that it seems to get stuck on is when it opens the case neck and pours in powder. commbing back down off of the die is where it gets stuck. i should get ahold of dillon.

some of the cases im sure were over lubed. its possible those are the ones that were bad. ill relube some to see. after i find a better lube.

any good way to tumble lube them? i really really really don't want to do them once by one by hand. i really really wont.

[noylj]

OK, during expansion, the expander and the case ID are tight and it can be difficult at times to remove.
This can be alleviated with a very little graphite or fine powdered mica lube in the case mouth, a polished expander, or cases that still have soot in them. Case lube in the case mouth will only ease extraction from the expander die. Since you are expanding and charging the case, a little case lube in the very upper case mouth should only help extraction and not cause any charging problems where the powder gets hung up on the lube.
You can try a spray lube such as Dillons, Frankford Arsenals, or Lee's (diluted with water) and allowing at least 2 minutes for each to dry thoroughly. Check the smoothness of the expander "ball" first and whether you are leaving any soot in the case to act as a dry lube.