Newbie question

[jdowens]

Starting to reload and have read anything and everything I can get my hands on. Ready to start today on a reload of 235grain FMJ .45 ACP and bought some PowerPistol propellant. I opened up my 3 reloading manuals (Speer, Lee and Lyman) and had one (Lyman) give me a start/max loads of 6.4/7.2gr and the other two give me different numbers of 7.0-7.1/8.1gr. It appears that the starting load on the Speer and Lee is near the Max load of the Lyman recommendations. All other elements appear to be equal (i.e. COAL, SD, etc). What wisdom can be given to this newbie?

[versifier]

The data in each of your manuals was generated with different firearms, different bullets (albeit close to the same weight, but all with slightly different alloys making up their jackets), different brands of cases, different lots of powder, and different testing equipment in different labs. If the numbers agreed with all those variables, THAT would be strange indeed. As long as you are loading within the functional envelope of your pistol, hot enough to cycle the action but not so hot that it causes excessive wear or damage to the gun, your are good-to-go. The actual numbers (MV, chamber pressure) in your pistol will never be exactly the same as those listed in any manual, though they will be close enough that safety is not compromised. This is a normal situation, though I know it can be a bit disconcerting when you're starting out.

When I am loading a new cartridge or powder, I generally choose the lightest charge level listed from the different START loads in all my manuals and begin to work up from there. On rare occasions the lightest load will not cycle or it will do so erratically, then I just up it to the next increment. Load only enough to fill one mag at the beginning and take it to the range for a function test. If it works well, then load enough to see if it is acceptably accurate for its intended purpose. If not, go up to the next increment and so on until you get the needed accuracy or you are approaching the MAX range. Then try a different brand of bullet with the same powder, working up from your STAR the same way. If the accuracy still isn't where it should be, then try a different powder instead of trying to push the envelope.

Some guns aren't very picky about what they're fed, others require testing several different brands and weights of bullets and a bunch of different powders to find "The Load" for that particular gun. Each different firearm is a new puzzle to solve, and what works best in one usually doesn't in another, especially if you are trying to achieve optimal accuracy. For a regular production pistol, not a specially made target gun, you can usually come up with a good practice load that will keep everything on the paper at 25yds without too much trouble. And that load will often shoot acceptably in other pistols of the same chambering, but you still need to work up from START in each gun to be safe.

It speaks well of you that you have the good sense to stop when something doesn't seem right and find out why before heading off into the unknown. Someday that good sense may save the life of you or someone you care about. When that little voice in the back of your mind says "Wait a minute, something seems odd", listen to it.

[runfiverun]

remember that those books are recipe books.
just like one from pilsbury and betty crocker.
you want to make biscuits,but one uses magarine and milk and one uses butter and eggs.
they both use flour and baking powder.
the essentials of flour,baking powder,protien,and butter fat are in all of them.
but they differ slightly.
and to make them work each time you add a titch more flour or milk to tweak them to your situation.
reloading is the same thing,there are things like bearing surface,case capacity, and jacket composition that makes the recipes slightly different [affecting pressure] to get the biscuits made.
the one thing that never changes in reloading however.
start low and work up,then once you have your own recipe then go head and make up a bigger batch.

[Paul B]

Vesifier and Runriver five have just about said it all. All I can as is I concur.
Paul B.

[jdowens]

Thanks for all the great feedback! For the benefit of others and those curious, here are my results. I loaded the 230 grain Hornady FMJ bullets in once fired cases (mixed brass) and primed with CCI 300 primers. I fired from my Sig P220. I reloaded 5 groups of 10, with 5 different weights of PowerPistol based upon a middle range from the 3 manuals. The averaged velocities for the 5 groups were 6.6 grains (780fps), 6.8 grains (785fps), 7.0 grains (813fps), 7.2 grains (817fps) and finally 7.4 grains (865fps). Not really a good response curve, but no signs of unsafe pressure. All rounds hit target within good groupings but target was close at 25 feet. Will likely re-do experiment again and use a longer target (25 yards) to see if can keep better groups and will move up a few more 1/10 grains.
Again thanks for all the input.

[runfiverun]

thise numbers do tell you something.
look at your start load then the next one. it only changed 15 fps.
you were on the low side there and bumping it up made a insignificant increase in pressure/velocity.
each step then moved you ahead 30-15 then 50.
the 7.4 is closing in on where the round nominally operates and you are starting to generate more pressure/velocity with each addition right there.
this tells me the powder is burning in it's zone [more efficiently] at that amount,if you see another big jump with the next .2 increases you are there.
adding more powder will increase pressure and no more velocity [to speak of] at some point.
i'm bettin you'll find happyness in the 7.3-7.7 range.
i haven't used this powder, buut that is what your chrono numbers are telling me.

[versifier]

It is extremely rare to see pressure signs (I am assuming you're looking at fired primers) in pistol rounds. Even when the rounds pass redline, pistol rounds will show no apparent signs like rifle rounds often do. When such signs appear, take them seriously, but do be aware that there are other causes of primer flattening and setback than overpressure. Loose primer pockets are always caused by overpressure. Without a pizeo transducer to measure the actual pressure, the only way for a loader to tell is to measure brand new unfired cases with a mic, not a caliper, at the exact same spot on the case head before and after firing. Any expansion of the head is bad, and cases within their safe working range will show no expansion throughout their lifetimes (any pistol cases usually last many many times longer than rifle cases due to their lack of bottleneck and lower working pressures. Often the only warning sign of "too hot" in a semiauto pistol is increased felt recoil.

BTW, Sigs often have pretty tight chambers, so when you make the transition to cast bullets, sized diameter will become critical to function. The .452 and .453 that other .45's love will gag up a Sig immediately. Nothing to concern yourself about with jacketed bullets, but I'm betting that sooner rather than later if you do a lot of shooting the cost of bullets will drive you to consider trying cast. When you do, a Sig can give you three fits unless you know that about them.

[Jammer Six]

The only thing I would add is to reiterate that in reloading, brands actually do matter, and switching brands of components will change results.

The brands of the components should be listed in all your manuals.

[j1]

Reloading is not rocket science but it does require care and thought. I should also wear my safety glasses especially when shooting. You seem to be thinking well. When in doubt ask questions because they keep you safe too.

Hi there v I like your doggie.

[versifier]

Welcome to The Guide j1, good to see you over here too.

[Paul B]

"BTW, Sigs often have pretty tight chambers, so when you make the transition to cast bullets, sized diameter will become critical to function. The .452 and .453 that other .45's love will gag up a Sig immediately."

I'm not completely sure that statement is accurate. My SIG P220 digests .452" bullets without any problem at all. can't say about .453" though as I don't have a sizing die that size and my SAECO #068 mold casts bullets right at .4525". I would have to try a .454" sizing die as the next step up but that one is reserved for the .45 LC.
That SAECO mold BTW is a clone of the famous H&G #68 and it feeds like pork fat through a goose in several 1911s as well as the P220. it's my all time favorite bullet for the .45 ACP. Three of my 1911's are for all practical purposes full blown target of combat pistols. The Colt Combat Commander is my sometimes CCW piece, at least in the winter and then there's the SIG P220 which shocked me by being just as accurate as the three target guns. Two of the 1911s were built by the late F. Bob Chow in San Francisco. Bob was a good friend back when I lived in San Francisco as when I was a kid, I'd hang out in his gun shop and was a general all round pest. When I came of age he made me a 1911 combat pistol and later made med another that was an even more serious gun. The last 1911 was somebody's hybrid I picked up at a gun show, a Caspian frame with a Colt Gold Cup upper. The frame looks rough and crude on the outside but that gun will keep ten shots under two inches from a rest when I do my part. The Combat Commander is almost strictly stock as I just polished the feed ramp and throat and replaced the grip safety with a beavertail type. The tiny tang of the CC lets the hammer dig holes in the web of my hand and shooting should be fun and not draw blood. The last one is a Colt Gold Cup Combat Commander. From what I understand they made something like 500 in blue and 500 in stainless steel and they now command quite a premium price. Even more so if you have both types. I'm still looking for the stainless one.
I haven't shot the .45's lately becaause I have to sit down and cast up a couple thousand bullets and then load them in the brass that's prepped and ready to go. This time of year it's too hat to do that and if I use the A/C out in my shed while castimg, the electric bill will go way the hell out of sight. Not much fun casting when it's 110 in the shade.
Paul B.