Developing a Load

[mauser1959]

I have been trying to figure out something , how does a person go about developing a charge for a hand gun. I will use .357s as an example ; I shoot a 150 grain bullet and am wishing to develop load of unique to push that bullet .A guy who I respect deeply told me to look at 2400 powder for that same bullet, however my local gun shop did not have that powder. I have used bullseye powder to push that bullet before , and it is even listed. However that gets me to the question , how is it possible to develop a load of unique to push that same bullet. I have read multiple places that signs of over pressure are greatly exaggerated , and to be honest , since I normally load everything light , I am not sure that I would have a clue what was an overload or not ... well until there was an earth shattering KaBoom. Another problem that I have run into , That bullet is listed for .357 magnums , but not for my .38specials , so once again how to develop that charge. I have been loading for a number of years, but this is something that I have tried to figure out , especially since there does not seem to be a consistent movement of powder charges, ie , if the bullet weight goes up , should the powder go down , that seems to be the most common movement , but not always. I have been shooting my own charges that I have guesstimated to be good, but there has to be a better way to find out what a person needs. I wish that there was a way to plug in a bullet and a powder into a program and come up with the numbers, but I have not seen such a chart as of yet.

[versifier]

There are several such programs on the market, QuickLoad is the first that comes to mind.

You are correct in that pressure signs in handguns can be difficult to spot or often nonexistant. Without pressure testing equipment, one is better off sticking with published data. I like to have at least three current manuals, but that is a minimum I have never stuck to. Right now I have five plus a dozen or so older ones and various current downloads. I think they're the best deal on life insurance you can buy.

When you can't find matching data, you can safely use data for a bullet that is slightly heavier than the one you have. With your 150's, you can use 158gr data with no problems. A chronograph is a big help, too. When you approach or reach the listed fps of a heavier bullet, you are safe pressure-wise, and if the data was generated with a jacketed bullet, you are always safe using a cast bullet of the same weight, too.

Just so you know, in the .38spec and .357mag, BEYE is traditionally used for light target loads, UNQ for mid to warm loads, and 2400 is at its best at or near the top for long range target and hunting loads. Even if you are not a hunter, UNQ is a great powder, one of my personal favorites for both cartridges, and arguably one of the most versatile handgun powders available for anything from .25ACP up through .45LC. It may or may not be the most accurate in any specific handgun, you just have to ask the gun in question. For UNQ and a 150gr in .38spec, 4.5Start to 5.0MAX, and in a .357mag 5.5Start to 8.3MAX. Work up from Start in .2 or .3 increments and see if the groups tighten up. I don't use 2400 in the .38, but I do in the .357mag and like it. Likewise, I don't bother with BEYE in the mag but love it for wadcutter loads in the .38. AA#5 is another good one to try - I buy the surp version of it in bulk.

[Paul B]

Interesting. It would be a big help if you'd said you were either shooting lead bullets or jacketed bullets. I shoot strictly only my own home cast bullets in my handguns. My plinking load for the .357 mag. with Unique is 5.0 gr. and a 158 gr. cast bullet. Ken Waters in his ook PET LOADS shows a maximum load of 8.5 gr. of Unique for both the 150 r. Sierra jacketed hollow point and the same charge for the Hornady 158 gr. jacketed hollow point. Probably a fairly moderate load of about 6.0 to 6.5 gr. with either a lead or jacketed bullet is what you're looking for.
Paul B.

[mauser1959]

Sorry for the lapse , but I shoot only my own cast bullets from WWs

[Paul B]

Sorry for the lapse , but I shoot only my own cast bullets from WWs

Ah so. If you're looking for a plinker, 5.0 gr. of Unique would work just fine. Would your 150 gr. Bullet be the Lyman #358477? I worked up to 14.0 gr. of #2400 with that bullet and very good results. That same bullet with 5.0 or 6.0 gr. of Unique would be a fine plinking load and would do a number on small game.
Dunno what book you're looking at but that bullet should be great in the .38 Spl. You could use that same 5.0 gr. Unique load in .38 Spl. brass. I use 5.0 r. of Unique with a 158 gr. cast SWC in my .38 Spl. snubbie with no problems at all other than the kick is noticable, but not all that bad.
Paul B.

[runfiverun]

if you look at the charts as a powder slows down it's weight increases.
notice i didn't say volumn.
what happens is a slower powder has a longer time pressure curve, it has the same peak prressure as a faster one does.
it just takes longer for it to get there and stays there longer [more gas volumn] pushing the bullet longer.
a fast powder will use less weight, but peaks at it's top pressure faster, and stays there for almost no amount of time.
virtually burning all of the powder at once.

[cwp1944]

I cannot understand anyone that wants to "work-up" a load without a crony, they are too inexpensive, for the safety they provide. Where is your library of reloading books? Loads are every where, on line try AMMOGUIDE, an interactive lexicon of reloading data. UNQ is great for cast bullets, but again load density has more to do with load development, low density can effect pressure rise to the extreme, that is why I use polyester filler in low density reloads. When you get close to max, you will find blown primers, and high power loads will cut your barrel faster than you can say "Jackie Robinson" I have not even gotten into barrel length, and conditions of temperature, bullet seating depth, etc. It is for these reasons that I find it hard to comment, rather than rejoice that culling of stupidity continues to this date. Answering the primary question, start with a very safe load, and work up in .2 grain increments, testing with accuracy and crony results until you obtain your guns sweet spot. Sand bag rest and shoot at 15 yards, as your groups become tighter, and then start to spray you will have found your correct load. Check and double check each firing, be safe and good luck.

[Paul B]

CWP. I hope you're not advocating the use if a filler in handgun rounds. Even Dacron as light as it is will cause a rise in pressure and in a handgun round that could quicklu become catastrophic. Not a good idea.
Paul B.

[tinbullet]

Jeezes! I thought the 'culling of stupidity' comment was kind of cruel. With 30 yrs of reloading my advice is to buy as many bullet manufactures reloading manuals as you can afford and consult them all prior to deciding what may be a safe load to start with. Also visit the powder manfactures web site or manuals and see what they recommend as starting and maximum loads. If a bullet powder combo is not listed its probably not the best or safest choice. FYI A chrono is a nice tool but not absoutly necessary.

[versifier]

No loading manual I have ever read has a section on tact. [smilie=s: The comment, while certainly lacking tact, did not cross the line where I would consider it to be flaming. It seemed to me to be more in the nature of a general comment than a personal one. Otherwise I would have followed my SOP and politely asked the poster in a PM to delete it. (I, too, am a firm believer in natural selection, but I think someone who comes here and asks an honest question is smart enough to make the cut and definitely not headed for a Darwin Award.)

For those newer and curious members, I have only had to ban one person (who shall remain nameless) for flaming in the five years that I have been moderator here. That person has recently shown up on another firearms forum where I am a member but not a moderator. He has already got himself one warning there and amazingly seems to be quite a bit more restrained than he was here, though his insulting and overly sarcastic manner made it easy to immediately identify him. As I use the same netname I know he recognized me. Some folks never learn manners, but also some forums are much more tolerant of flaming than we are here.