165gn LRNFP for 30-30

[meborder]

Hoping to find a load for a Hard cast Lead 165gn RNFP bullet for the 30-30 Win. Ideally, this will be used for turkey.

Powders on the shelf are:
International clays
Blue Dot
Benchmark
Reloader 15
IMR4350

Ive heard of some people using Blue Dot for plinkers, but ive never tried that. Ive used RL15 with great success for jacketed bullets, but I've never tried lead for a rifle.

open to suggestion!
thanks!

Mike

[versifier]

First off, what is the nose of the bullet actually shaped like? RN=Round Nose, FP=Flat Point It can't be both at once. ;-) Is it a Plain Base (PB) or a Gas Check (GC) bullet? You can't generally push a PB bullet as hard or as fast as you can a GC bullet, assuming both are correctly sized.

Next, if you bought them, what is their actual size, not what's printed on the box? (They need to be at least .309", better .310" or even .311", but you have to slug the bore of your rifle to figure out what the best size will be. If they are too small and too hard, you're going to turn your barrel into a lead mine in just a few shots if you try anything above plinking level loads.) If you don't know how to slug your bore, ask and we'll explain the process.

You need a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook if you're going to do much shooting with cast out of your rifles and handguns. You will find a wealth of data about the making and effective use of cast bullets with a whole bunch of different powders, including the faster pistol/shotgun powders.

You can use any non-spherical rifle powder for a reduced cast bullet load with the formula below. NEVER try reduced loads with any spherical powder unless you're hankering for a Darwin Award. Start with data for a 170gr jacketed bullet and find the powder you want to try. Subtract the START load from the MAX load. Take the difference and subtract that from the JSTART to get CASTSTART.
JMAX - JSTART = Difference JSTART - Difference = CSTART
Obviously some powders will give you a much greater charge range than others, and these are the best powders to try first. Of your available powders, I would start with RL15 and IMR4350, but neither would be my first choice in the .30-30. Based on many years of experience with the cartridge in a variety of different actions and with bullets ranging from 90-200gr, my favorites are IMR3031, IMR4895, and RL7 as they are the most versatile.

Work up in 1gr increments until you find that the groups tighten up or you get to JSTART with a PB bullet or halfway up the Jacketed data table with a GC bullet. As you approach JSTART, keep an eye on your bore and your group sizes so you can stop when the barrel starts to lead up. It's easy to clean a little lead out of your barrel, but it becomes a major operation if you fill up your grooves. Leading at the breech end indicates poor obturation/gas cutting from a bullet that is too hard and too small. Leading near the muzzle indicates you're pushing the bullet beyond it's structural strength and it is stripping (riding OVER the lands and leaving excess lead in the barrel grooves). Leading the whole length means you didn't do your homework and you need to order a Lewis Tool from Brownells to get your barrel cleaned out. [smilie=1: Most of us have had to learn the hard way at least once, maybe you'll be the exception 8-)

[Guesser]

Ideal/Lyman # 311041 is/was designed for 30-30. It is a nominal 170 gr. flat nose, gas checked bullet that works well in most 30 caliber cartridges. I've used it in 30-30 and 308. For a light plinker I like 311316. 115-116 gr. flat nose gas checked. Both good bullets and worth lots of tries, takes a while to get a rifle to shoot lead, especially with all our preconceived notions and expectations we develop using jacketed bullets. It is a whole other world.

[meborder]

Thanks for the replies!

Sorry for not being more specific in the original post. The bullet is listed as RNFP, and it is basically a truncated round nose. Pictures can be found at www.bulletsdirect.com, as that is where i purchased them. They are a plain base bullet, although slightly chamfered.

They are supposed to be sized .309, and the ones i have measured are either a fat .309, or a lean .310, depending on how well i'm actually measuring them.

I'm leaning toward using Benchmark, as it is closer to RL7 than RL15. I tried IMR4350 with jacketed bullets, but the performance was very poor. Very soft loads even near maximum, and the grouping was terrible. RL15 has been very good and has shot 1.1" @100 yds with just a rear peep sight. But i've had trouble with leading (in pistols) with using a slow burning powder and a non GC bullet.

Versifier, thanks for the scientific approach to getting a starting load. I may well have to invest in another reloading manual as i keep expanding my realm of loading lead bullets.

thanks for the replies, and i'll be glad to hear any more advice that is offered!

Mike B.

[Guesser]

Take a look at SR4759 powder. I have really good luck with it in rifle cartridges and lead bullets.

[meborder]

Quick range report:

Shot 20 rounds ranging in 1.0 grain increments from 23.0 to 27.0 (benchmark) at 50 yard.

23.0 shot low and to the right but grouped pretty well
24.0 shot dead center with one flier
25.0 one of them hit the paper
26-27 was just sittin there pullin the trigger :)

I might try a short spread from 23.5 to 24.5 in 0.2 grain increments and see what happens then (I've got 500 bullets to play with!!)


I can see why people have trouble with marlins and lead bullets. I got lucky and it shoots well at at 50 yards and low velocities -- exactly what i wanted. But if i had been looking at a full power 100 yard load, i would be quite disgruntled.

I shot the hotter rounds in fairly rapid succession (26-27 grains) trying to see if i would get significant lead build up. I have not had time to clean or inspect fully, but looking at the muzzle, i do not see excessive signs of leading. I usually get a copper build up on the lands right at the muzzle. But it is a new gun still and it does keep getting better and better.

Ive been using KG2 bore polish to clean, and it seems to do so very quickly, I'm wondering if that this stuff isn't helping with the break in. Might have to post that question to the general forum.

thanks again for all the help!

mike
(also posted on the reloader's nest forum)